Misc feedback requests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Torven, Aug 27, 2015.

  1. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    Torven Holmes
     
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  2. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Did anybody on AK use necro pets to powerlevel while feigned? Currently on TAKP a necro can use his pet as a neutral damage dealer while feigned, and I cannot find a single mention anywhere of people doing this to powerlevel. Furthermore this is not possible on Live servers.
     
  3. Verdent

    Verdent Well-Known Member

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    Did it on AK. You had to FD after the dot damage stopped but dots worked as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  4. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    Also a mention of it here:

    http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000217a.html

    "The "Feign Death" spell, when cast by a Necromancer, will now have a fixed duration. The Necromancer will receive several warnings prior to the spell wearing off. This change was necessary because some Necromancers found a way to gain experience through their pet while being AFK for an extended duration, such as being in bed for the night. Note: This does not affect Shadowknights or Monks."

    However, on AK I don't believe there was a fixed duration on FD. Likely there is a another patch that rolled that duration back before AK went live. Unless there already is one and its set really long that no one noticed.

    FD killing on live was likely patched somewhere after AK.
     
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  5. Devour_Souls

    Devour_Souls People Like Me

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    At some point prior to PoP that was changed to where the pet died after being FD for 2 minutes. I don't remember trying it, but that is the behavior I would have expected on AK.
     
  6. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    yea on ak necro pet poofed if you fd'd for too long, cant recall the time but remember having to resummon pet after being afk fd for a while
     
  7. RossGuy

    RossGuy Member

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    Sounds like we need PoP before we start nerfing necros.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  8. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    sounds like we need pop before nerfing all our xp
     
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  9. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    We haven’t met our nerf quota to unlock pop
     
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  10. Verdent

    Verdent Well-Known Member

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    OK, to clarify. You needed to RE FD when using dots to FD pl. You had to wait till the dmg stopped ticking then you could FD, pet could still be doing dmg.

    I do not remember the Necro pet poofing from FD at all on AK. IF it did it ever poof it wouldn't be in 2 minutes...

    IIRC you could remain FD and just /assist /pet attack and you would continue to gain xp on the toon you are PLing. Necro PL was very much a thing at nobles with OOR xp groups.

    Put OOR xp back in and we can call it even =P
     
  11. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

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    Let's move on from the past now, wait for PoP, and then maybe go back to the bargaining table.
     
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  12. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    February 17, 2000 7:00 am:
    - The “Feign Death” spell, when cast by a Necromancer, will now have a
    fixed duration. The Necromancer will receive several warnings prior to
    the spell wearing off. This change was necessary because some
    Necromancers found a way to gain experience through their pet while
    being AFK for an extended duration, such as being in bed for the night.
    Note: This does not affect Shadowknights or Monks.


    https://www.project1999.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-147403.html
    March 21st, 11:00am
    *Feign Death and Pets*

    The Feign Death spell will no longer wear off. This change had been made due to an issue that was discovered that allowed Necromancers to solo creatures while feigned and AFK. The change had some unintended effects, as we discovered that there are a few cases where someone could be legitimately feigned for a longer period. Instead of having the spell wear off, any summoned pet will automatically suicide 2 minutes after its owner feigns. This is the solution requested by most of the players who voiced an opinion, and should serve the same goal as the original change.


    June 16, 2004:
    Undead Pets
    Pets no longer go away after their master has feigned death for more than 2 minutes. *


    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/firionavie/feign-death-for-dummies-t4761.html
    March 11 2004
    "- The pet poofs after 2 minutes FD. So far I got the "your enemies have forgotten you" always before the pet poofed, so there is time to stand up."


    http://www.necrotalk.com/forum/the-boneyard/necromancer-guild/3320-a-happy-necro
    June 2004
    First round of Changes
    Hey folks,

    Our first round of changes is going to the Test server today and tomorrow. This round includes the following changes,
    ...
    Necromancer pets will no longer despawn after 2 minutes when their master is feigned.
    ...
    Thanks for all of your support.

    Brenlo


    [Sun Jun 17 17:02:44 2012] Flayed tells alliance:1, 'if you're fd for long enough as a necro does your pet just poof?'
    [Sun Jun 17 17:02:51 2012] Jato tells alliance:1, 'yes'
    [Sun Jun 17 17:02:54 2012] Xillith tells alliance:1, 'yeah'

    [Tue May 23 23:33:02 2006] You say to your guild, 'Pet remains a couple of minutes after FD' (Said by Tigertugger on his necro)

    [Thu Mar 26 23:27:39 2009] Gugok tells alliance:3, 'we kind of had that when necros could FD'
    [Thu Mar 26 23:27:49 2009] Gugok tells alliance:3, 'and pets would kill'
    [Thu Mar 26 23:27:52 2009] Pheny tells alliance:3, 'Necro FD in Seb. XP all night'
    [Thu Mar 26 23:28:01 2009] Knovo tells alliance:3, 'Believe necro pets poof after awhile of FD '
    [Thu Mar 26 23:28:06 2009] Gugok tells alliance:3, 'they did it in solb and lguk a long time ago'
    [Thu Mar 26 23:28:11 2009] Gugok tells alliance:3, 'they didn't always do that =)'
    [Thu Mar 26 23:28:20 2009] Cromis tells alliance:3, 'yeah pets didnt poof early on'
    [Thu Mar 26 23:28:29 2009] Gugok tells alliance:3, '2 fs daggers + fd = all night xp'

    So Sony put in the FD timer because necros were AFK killing while FD, which meant that necros got credit for pet damage while FD. It was like that in 2000, and it's like that on Live. If they had made pet damage while FD neutral/ownerless like damage shields instead, then the timer would not have been necessary at all. Sony had very good reasons to not do that. There is no indication of that ever being the case that I can see. The reason why emu code is ignoring pet damage credit for FD players is because of the way our hate lists work: we remove FD players and then re-add them when standing instead of the way Sony does it, which is keep them on the list while having the NPCs simply ignore the player and reset the damage and hate on use.
     
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  13. Cadsuane

    Cadsuane People Like Me

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    I think there are more phases of changes than listed there too. For example, when pets were set to neutral faction to not agro things, which also would have nullified the afk-exp exploit.
    Do we have any logs of pets poofing? I'm sure that there must be some in there if it was happening, I just can't recall 7+ years ago...

    ( I could have sworn that fd-PL was accurate though. /shrug )
     
  14. Verdent

    Verdent Well-Known Member

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    I really don't remember them poofing after only 2 minutes. It has been awhile I guess...
     
  15. Devour_Souls

    Devour_Souls People Like Me

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  16. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    I did some greps searching for 'as you wish, oh great one' and 'soandso dies' and neither resulted in producing evidence. So either pets suiciding didn't produce log text or it's something else. I really wouldn't expect it to produce either of those text lines however since one is from issuing a command and the other is from DoT deaths.
     
  17. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    2 minutes seems short but it has been a while but it did happen
     
  18. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    I think as long as you give your pet commands it reset the timer though I do remember leaving myself in Droga fd overnight spamming pet attack xxxx for faction without issues


    Edit: this is incorrect I wouldn’t have been fd to receive faction
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  19. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    Isn’t this something you can search in the logs, sounds like if it made it to AK there would have been some text?
     
  20. Devour_Souls

    Devour_Souls People Like Me

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    Neither of those quotes would have applied to AK. One was way earlier and the other way later.
     
  21. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    We didn’t have the enemies forget you message but the pets did poof, rank 2 suspend minion gets around it easily though for afk breaks
     
  22. RossGuy

    RossGuy Member

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    I don't see how nerfing FD will solve the problem it's intended to fix seeing as all a necro has to is just fd before the mobs dies. Nerfing FD will just make having to afk for longer than 2 mins a pita (mana, meming spells, and reagents).

    If the "real" problem is players being afk while sending their necro pets in, then maybe we need a better system for catching and punishing said people knowingly break the rules rather than punishing all of us who don't.
     
  23. Devour_Souls

    Devour_Souls People Like Me

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    Making it operate as it did on AK, isn't really nerfing it.
     
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  24. RossGuy

    RossGuy Member

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    Mained a necro on ak, never ran into this.
     
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  25. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    Lulz. These last 2 patches, and soon to be third. Operate on AK? Who knows if some of it even operated on EQ.
     
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  26. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Give me a break. You never even played on AK.

    Do me a favor, insult me in other threads instead of spamming this one
     
  27. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Did charm work on any merchant NPCs on AK? Can somebody think of a single example?
     
  28. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    It's been a while, but I'm fairly sure I tried charm on "monster" merchants like the goblin merchant in Sol A, and the result was that yes, it landed, but you couldn't buy or sell from a charmed merchant. It got you the same "busy" message you got trying to buy or sell from a merchant who was in combat with another player (or otherwise out of position).

    Also, people definitely charmed Crow (the merchant who sells a single stack of Crow's Special Brew and needs to be killed in order to renew the supply) and let him die to guildmasters etc in order to avoid the faction hit for killing him.
     
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  29. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Nitram Anizok in PoInnovation is another example. Vendor who sells tinkering components. People would charm him during the Xanamech escort to SoW him and buff him.

    However having said that I checked my logs on chanter and bard, don't see any merchants I charmed. For Crow I used Necro to DoT and Levant.
     
  30. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    There are comments online and in logs indicating that many merchant NPCs were flagged uncharmable. P99 has a thread here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2555344

    So it seems that Sony just applied this individually to many merchants instead of hardcoding it. Unfortunately we can't know which NPCs it should apply to other than the anecdotal ones. On Live servers most merchants are flagged to be unattackable. I checked the goblin merchant in solusek A and he was flagged immune to charm but is attackable.