Misc feedback requests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Torven, Aug 27, 2015.

  1. Faults

    Faults I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    1,728
    Light blue pets worked - i skilled up using enchanter pets on AK.
     
  2. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,611
    Aeldorb's Animation (the level 62 chanter pet) is dark blue at 65.

    I want to say I skilled up several toons using Zumaik's animation (the level 55 pet), but it appears to be green at 65 on the dev server. Perhaps I'm remembering wrong (I could have used it to max defense on a sub-60 toon), or maybe the pet level is incorrect on TAKP. Sadly, I don't have a log of anyone summoning, much less conning it. (There is a mention in the Allakhazam's comments for the spell of a possible level reduction in 2003, though: two people say it changed from dark to light blue at level 56 at that time.)
     
  3. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,564
    [Sun Mar 10 20:15:43 2013] Pompeius tells alliance:1, 'so... are there any real tricks to raising defense skill, other than finding a dark blue con to tank indeffinitely?'
    [Sun Mar 10 20:15:50 2013] Meecrob tells alliance:1, 'light blue works'
    [Sun Mar 10 20:15:59 2013] Shawwn tells alliance:1, 'duel someone with a pet'
    [Sun Mar 10 20:16:00 2013] Meecrob tells alliance:1, 'try a enc/mage pet'
    [Sun Mar 10 20:16:12 2013] Igni tells alliance:1, 'can it be a lowbie pet?'
    [Sun Mar 10 20:16:17 2013] Meecrob tells alliance:1, 'has to be light blue'
    [Sun Mar 10 20:16:20 2013] Shawwn tells alliance:1, 'has to be light blue'

    I was surprisingly very slacker in raising my characters defenses on AK. My bard wasn't even maxed after being time flagged for a year or so and pulling plenty of EP minis to camp.
     
    Ripwind likes this.
  4. Wellmine

    Wellmine New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Same on my bard, never really needed a high defense. But I’ve found that mage pets worked best on this server for skill ups. One of the unusual pets.
     
  5. Mascha

    Mascha Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    500
    Best pet for skillups is Monster Summoning III. Huge HPs, low DPS. Pet hold helps a ton.
     
  6. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,268
    LB did work, but slower
     
  7. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Actually I'm starting to think LBs maybe worked, just at a much slower rate, and perhaps applied to all NPCs:

    [Fri Mar 22 09:42:17 2013] Jedorf tells alliance:1, 'can you gain defensive skillups by dueling a green pet?'
    [Fri Mar 22 09:42:30 2013] Snitty tells alliance:1, 'no has to be lb'
    [Fri Mar 22 09:42:59 2013] Jedorf tells alliance:1, 'i can make from green to red pets. which do you think is best for fast skillups'
    [Fri Mar 22 09:43:20 2013] Snitty tells alliance:1, 'lb would be'
    [Fri Mar 22 09:43:44 2013] Jedorf tells alliance:1, 'so as long as its lb skillup speed is same for def?'
    [Fri Mar 22 09:44:33 2013] Suarez tells alliance:1, 'it's slow no matter what, i've always heard to use db here for that'

    [Fri May 17 18:21:20 2013] Orochi tells alliance:1, 'so do defense/weapon skill ups just not go up in a duel then? Even if you're fighting pets?'
    [Fri May 17 18:21:45 2013] Sardok tells alliance:1, 'i have read the do'
    [Fri May 17 18:21:51 2013] Sardok tells alliance:1, 'just very slowly'
    [Fri May 17 18:22:01 2013] Sardok tells alliance:1, 'and you need to use a arena not duel'
    [Fri May 17 18:22:04 2013] Orochi tells alliance:1, 'I've been fighting this lightblue enchanter pet for 20 minutes and not a single piercing or defense skill up'
    [Fri May 17 18:22:09 2013] Orochi tells alliance:1, 'oh >.>'
    [Fri May 17 18:22:12 2013] Sardok tells alliance:1, 'arena'

    [Fri May 17 19:21:12 2013] Orochi tells alliance:1, 'my alt has been fighting my lightblue shaman pet in the arena for the last 30 minutes. Not a single defense skill up. I've been fighting her pet and gotten 2 defense skill ups. This sucks.'
    [Fri May 17 19:22:51 2013] Orochi tells alliance:1, 'is there a better way to raise defense than this? I am beginning to think the shaman pet won't give any skill ups at all.'
    [Fri May 17 19:38:35 2013] Orochi tells alliance:1, 'welp, can't train defense at a trainer'
    [Fri May 17 19:39:31 2013] Orochi tells alliance:1, 'my defense is 60. It's not listed at the trainer at all.'

    [Sat Dec 29 17:42:40 2012] You tell temerity:2, 'I found using pets in the arena highly effective at raising defense skill'
    [Sat Dec 29 17:43:09 2012] You tell temerity:2, 'can haste them, and they do like half damage to PCs, and stop the damage at will'
    [Sat Dec 29 17:43:51 2012] Landan tells temerity:2, 'need a light blue pet though'
    [Sat Dec 29 17:44:03 2012] Landan tells temerity:2, 'theres a perma rooted LB mob in warslik woods too'
    [Sat Dec 29 17:44:10 2012] Landan tells temerity:2, 'for VP key'
    [Sat Dec 29 17:44:12 2012] You tell temerity:2, 'only dark blue pets worked for me actually'
    [Sat Dec 29 17:44:33 2012] You tell temerity:2, 'actually light blue mobs didnt work for me. was wondering why that was'
    [Sat Dec 29 17:45:10 2012] You tell temerity:2, 'been pulling trains to AoE for days on my druid and got only a few points since most mobs were light blue to me'


    I have a level 45 wizard log of 7 minutes of two hasted pets beating on her with zero skillups.

    [Tue Dec 18 05:40:09 2012] Jasarer regards you indifferently -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.
    [Tue Dec 18 05:40:11 2012] Vartik regards you indifferently -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.

    [Tue Dec 18 05:40:49 2012] Vartik tries to pierce YOU, but misses!
    [Tue Dec 18 05:48:11 2012] Jasarer slashes YOU for 3 points of damage.

    The result of using dark blue pets later on, in the same amount of time was

    [Sat Dec 22 03:15:30 2012] You have become better at Piercing! (91)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:15:44 2012] You have become better at Defense! (116)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:16:27 2012] You have become better at Defense! (117)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:16:46 2012] You have become better at Defense! (118)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:16:58 2012] You have become better at Defense! (119)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:17:43 2012] You have become better at Offense! (132)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:17:50 2012] You have become better at Defense! (120)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:18:03 2012] You have become better at Piercing! (92)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:18:59 2012] You have become better at Piercing! (93)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:19:16 2012] You have become better at Offense! (133)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:19:25 2012] You have become better at Defense! (121)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:19:27 2012] You have become better at Defense! (122)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:20:26 2012] You have become better at Defense! (123)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:20:33 2012] You have become better at Defense! (124)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:20:39 2012] You have become better at Piercing! (94)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:22:31 2012] You have become better at Piercing! (95)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:22:37 2012] You have become better at Defense! (125)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:22:41 2012] You have become better at Defense! (126)
    [Sat Dec 22 03:22:55 2012] You have become better at Defense! (127)

    Unfortunately I often turned logs off for this to not fill them up with combat spam otherwise I might have had more examples, but every case of pet skillups I found in logs were from dark blues. Of course I started avoiding LB pets after some time
     
  8. Mukk

    Mukk Member

    Messages:
    53
    I got defense skillups using light blue pets through the 50's on AK. I'd doubt the mechanics of that change at 60 or 65. There might be a reduction in the rate of skillups, akin to the reduction in xp for light blues, but they absolutely provided skillups. Pet, or mob.
     
  9. Palarran

    Palarran Member

    Messages:
    52
    There's a skeletal hand trap on the second floor of the Tower of Frozen Shadow that gave defense skill increases on Live as well. (I haven't tested it here.) The character here was level 53 at the time, but from memory I think it worked up to at least level 60, if not higher?

    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:24 2003] A skeletal hand claws YOU for 12 points of damage.
    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:24 2003] A skeletal hand claws YOU for 22 points of damage.
    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:27 2003] A skeletal hand tries to claw YOU, but misses!
    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:27 2003] A skeletal hand claws YOU for 40 points of damage.
    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:29 2003] A skeletal hand tries to claw YOU, but misses!
    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:29 2003] A skeletal hand claws YOU for 13 points of damage.
    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:31 2003] You have become better at Defense! (135)
    [Sun Jun 08 00:21:31 2003] A skeletal hand tries to claw YOU, but misses!
     
  10. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

    Messages:
    577
    @Bragon heard you know some peeps that can maybe clear this up. :p
     
  11. Bragon

    Bragon People Like Me

    Messages:
    288
    I know a guy....
     
  12. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    [Sun Oct 27 14:51:44 2013] You begin casting Zumaik`s Animation.
    [Sun Oct 27 14:52:54 2013] Labartik tells you, 'Attacking Treasure Chest Master.'
    [Sun Oct 27 14:54:14 2013] Labartik judges you amiably -- You could probably win this fight.

    That's on PC client. Actually having different con ranges on two clients makes this trickier to figure out. Highest level green on PC client at 65 is 46 and LB range is 47-51. On Mac client LB is 50-54. Although cons at 60 and under I think are the same.
     
    Cadsuane and Ravenwing like this.
  13. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,611
    Thanks for checking! Guess it has to be Aeldorb's after all, at least at 65.

    Incidentally, my Mac client says that level 47-51 mobs con light blue at 65.
     
  14. robregen

    robregen Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,155
    The pet is level 41, I just looked up in our database
     
  15. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Why does Zamiel's thread say light blues were 50-54
     
  16. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,564
    Is the only message for light blue this one? "You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though."

    Or can this message be used in green cons as well? I see this in my logs:

    [Wed Jun 27 10:57:47 2012] skeletal watcher scowls at you, ready to attack -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.

    Which is level range 47-50 in our DB and 46-48 on Allakhazam.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  17. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    It's only for light blues as far as I know. Sony had different messages for dark blues at lower levels
     
  18. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    1,925
    I've seen a different message for high green cons that give exp
     
  19. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,564
    Dug through 1668 cons of light blues after dinging 65 on AK. Mostly its a bunch of level 50-55ish PoP Tier 1, Ssra, Sebilis, Akheva, Deep, SG etc. mobs.

    Not seeing a bunch of clear "oh this mob is under level 50 for sure" kind of mobs.

    [Thu Feb 07 18:29:03 2013] the ghoul lord scowls at you, ready to attack -- You could probably win this fight.

    Pretty sure he is a 47+ every time mob, but he gave back a green con message every time at 65.
     
  20. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Well checking Zorblak and Tigertugger's logs and it seems that 50-54 for light blues was correct for them.

    Apparently there are three light blue ranges that concern us: 50-54 as stated in Zamiel's thread and older AK logs; 47-51 on the PC client; and 45-49 which came after the June 11 2003 change.

    Questions I have are: why is the PC client in this weird middle area and not one or the other? Why does Ravenwing have this same 47-51 range? Cavedude put in the 50-54 range, so without changes that's what we're using. He's gone so I can't ask him questions. This is an important thing to know since it significantly affects experience gains after level 60.

    I was also checking cons for 60 and under levels today:

    12238 looks like %1 would wipe the floor with you!
    Yellow: 26,27@25, 61@60

    12231 looks like quite a gamble.
    White: 45@45, 60@60
    Yellow: 16@15; 11@10; 15@14; 25@24

    12230 looks kind of risky..you might win.
    White: 8@8; 14@14

    12229 looks like an even fight.
    White: 6@6

    12235 %1 appears to be quite formidable.
    Dark Blue: 22@30; 33,44@45; 18,19@25, 45,59@60
    White: 15@15, 24@24

    12233 looks kind of dangerous.
    Dark Blue: 18,19@20, 23@24

    12234 looks quite risky, but might be worth a try.
    Dark Blue: 15,16,17@20; 11@15, 18@24

    12228 looks kind of risky, but you might win.
    Dark Blue: 4,5,6@7; 7@10

    12227 looks like you would have the upper hand.
    Dark Blue: 3,5@6; 9@13; 10@14
    Light Blue: 4@8; 5,6@10; 7@11; 8@13; 9@14

    12232 You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.
    Light Blue: 13,14@20; 9,10@15; 20,21@30; 29,32@45; 16,17@25; 19@29; 19@28; 16@24, 17@24, 40,44@60

    12237 This creature could pose problems, you would probably defeat it.
    Green: 15@25; 18@28

    12236 You could probably win this fight.
    Green: 1,19@30; 28@45; 13,14@25; 18@29; 17@28, 39@60

    12226 looks like a reasonably safe opponent.
    Green: 1,2@6; 4@10; 8@15; 15@24

    The same text is used for two different con colors for three of those. (possibly more I might have missed) Interestingly for levels 25-28, the top level green returns a unique con text.

    I'm starting to think that we're assuming con color determines certain restrictions when it may in fact use a slightly different level check formula, such that some light blues might grant skill-ups and some may not. Another reason I think that may be a possibility is this patch note from Nov 7 2001:

    Also light blues don't all give the same exp%, with lower level ones granting 20% and higher level ones granting 60 or 80%. (according to late 2002 era packet sniffed data anyway)
     
    Neealana likes this.
  21. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,611
    Best guess would be that Zorblak, Tigertugger, and Zamiel were using the old PowerPC client and the Intel update changed it to match whatever PC client it is that people are using.
     
  22. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    50-54 is the confirmed light blue range to at least December 2002, which I have found in my own logs.

    [Thu Dec 05 06:27:57 2002] a Tae Ew warder scowls at you, ready to attack -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.

    I didn't log stuff in the first half of 2003 so prove conclusively that it stayed that way until June 11, however what little I find online suggests that it was 50-54 until June. I would think a dark blue con range expansion would be noted somewhere but I find nothing before the June patch.

    So why on earth are our clients 47-51?
     
  23. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

    Messages:
    1,433
    AK was a hodgepodge of merges from live. Perhaps this was changed at some point by Hobart? Do we have a source of AK only patch history?

    Otherwise something is pretty wrong.
     
  24. Tryfan

    Tryfan People Like Me

    Messages:
    320
    I can't help but wonder if this light blue dark blue uncertainty could be responsible for the disconnect in experience gains you were seeing in aeing?

    And while i can't imagine it being the case, is it actually possible for the client with the more forgiving dark blue range is actually getting more experience? Surely that is not something controlled client side...
     
    sowislifesowislove likes this.
  25. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,564
    I am a bit confused. At 65 my cons on Ghoul Lord were all greens. Ghoul Lord should be 47+, and I was on a PC client. So shouldn't he have been light blue according to what is being said about PC client showing 47-51 being light blue at level 65?
     
  26. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    The Ghoul Lord is level 47. Magelo is almost always correct. (although may miss some levels if the NPC can spawn in a range)

    [Tue Aug 28 00:28:52 2001] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 44!
    [Sat Sep 01 02:58:30 2001] the ghoul lord scowls at you, ready to attack -- what would you like your tombstone to say?
    [Sat Sep 01 14:24:08 2001] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 45!
    [Sun Sep 23 04:22:27 2001] the ghoul lord scowls at you, ready to attack -- looks like it would wipe the floor with you!

    I can say that with using the C button right now on my PC client, the light blue range is 47-51. I just considered a level 47 NPC again.

    However my tracking window is showing 50-54 right now. We knew the tracking window was not consistent with the C button but last night I could have sworn it was showing 49-53 or 48-52. This is very odd.

    I think the most likely explanation is that Hobart screwed up the con ranges in the Intel client somehow and the PC client is using that binary. I'll have to ask Secrets.

    And yes, the server would determine how much exp you got. No this would not account for the AoE exp discrepancy.
     
    Mokli likes this.
  27. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Secrets informs me that the C button returns a result from the server and the tracking window does not. I thought C was client side but I was wrong. (funny I don't remember lag from this) So apparently we have multiple con color determining methods in our logic and one of them is sending bad results post 60. Wouldn't be the first time I've encountered redundant routines in here.

    PC client con of level 54 NPC:

    eqlog_Torrin_52.txt 8456 [Thu Oct 24 02:22:58 2013] Bufa kindly considers you -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.

    Should have checked sooner I guess
     
  28. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,611
    Huh. That makes sense, now that I think about it: I think I've had connection problems before and noticed that conning NPCs didn't work.

    Wouldn't that indicate that the PC and Mac clients (much less the Intel and PPC Mac clients) can't have had different light blue ranges, though?
     
  29. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Problem was a >= was being used instead of <=, so we were using level 61 con ranges for all levels above 60. Oh well, easy fix. Found a problem with my light blue exp code while fixing this so it was worth the trouble.
     
    Mechaike, Ripwind, Sketchy and 5 others like this.
  30. Verdent

    Verdent Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    290
    You should be a private investigator Torven
     
    Ransom likes this.