How does armor currently work here?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cerebro, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Hm, I looked into block/dodge/parry/riposte skill caps at 65 on TAKP dev. As far as I can tell, no cap changes for any class between 60 and 65 on dev. Is that AKurate? Does anyone have logs of their evasion skillups on AK?

    (Or maybe @Torven already looked into this!)
     
  2. Yaximus

    Yaximus Member

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    I really appreciate the posts you guys do on this stuff. Learning about the nuts and bolts of EQ is a big reason I keep interested in playing the game.
     
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  3. Pithy

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    Looking back at the Luclin-era table, rogues actually get quite a bit of value out of evasion mods. The blob1 orb is probably worth picking up for rogues who tank regularly; dodging an additional 1% of all incoming attacks is pretty strong. Rogues who tank should also add either TXD's mask or DXVT's cloak to their BiS list. Riposting another 1% of incoming attacks is strong, and adds DPS too.

    Monks and BLs who tank should definitely camp the 10% block bracer in Grieg's. Well worth the loss of HP/AC in the wrist slot, IMO. Block is already the strongest evasion skill, and blocking an additional 1% of all incoming attacks just makes it that much better. Like rogues, monks who tank should also pick up either TXD's mask or DXVT's cloak for that sweet riposte bump.

    I sure wish knights could equip Bloodfrenzy! All dodge/parry/riposte mods in the game currently are vaporware for knights, sadly. Maybe that'll change in PoP if skill caps rise?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  4. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    For folks who are interested, btw, AllaKabor's Item Search can find items with skill modifiers and sort them by class, level, slot, etc.

    Darchon shared the following from his AK logs on the Tem forums:

    So for bards and warriors, at least, it looks like the evasion skill caps at 65 on AK were the same as they are at 60/65 on TAKP.
     
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  5. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    A little Tem forum archaeology pulled up the skill caps for Illicit (a 65 SK) on AK:

    Those are the same skill caps that TAKP has at 60/65. More evidence that skill caps shouldn't rise in PoP. Bummer!
     
  6. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Sorry for blowin' up this thread, but Aegis of the Earth looks like a solid bucket-list item for warriors. Amazing stats, 75 shield AC (which isn't affected by the softcap), and the 8% parry mod will actually work.

    The 8% dodge mod on the melee Aid Grimel earring will do nothing for any melee other than rogues.

    The 12% riposte mod on Knight's Gleaming Mace from PoFire one-group minis will actually work for knights! Nice option for sword-and-board tanking Big Bads.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  7. Jugo!

    Jugo! People Like Me

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    Major bummer- I'm old, but I thought we did get skillups post 60. Am I thinking of just Defense/offense skillups or something for certain classes? (maybe bards?) Your evidence is irrefutable, however. Wonder if Rysia (rest her soul) knew about the rogue's advantage in nearly every sector for tanking with mods?
     
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  8. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Illicit and Rysia were good friends, so he probably told her about his findings.

    I feel like I got skillups post 60 on AK, too, but hell if I know what skills or which classes. It's been so long.

    It's also worth noting that the current TAKP formula may not be precisely AKurate. Illicit's AK parses suggest that his 10% parry mod mattered and his 12% riposte mod did not matter. (It's unclear whether his 8% dodge mod mattered.) If Illicit had parsed on TAKP, only the riposte mod would've mattered.

    Too bad we can't go back and do longer parses on AK. :( Regardless, though, these evasion modifiers have sorta marginal effects. The received wisdom on Live in era, and on AK, was basically "sure, pick some mods up if you have the chance, but don't worry too much about it." I think that sums up the situation on TAKP pretty well, too, so /shrug.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  9. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Our current logic is almost certainly wrong, but it's the least amount of wrong I can come up with for now. Since the logic apparently must use integers, that means there will be cases where mods do nothing no matter how it's coded.
     
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  10. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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    Also the 8% dodge modifier on Orb of Evasion from VT - few monks and warriors seem to like it, but uncertain whether it does anything :)
     
  11. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    The best thing about the Orb of Evasion is that it doesn't spam everyone's cursors with summoned carbohydrates when you right click on it.
     
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  12. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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    Wow spot the rich person with their fancy metabolism AAs and premium non-perishable food supply
     
  13. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Yeah, using integer arithmetic for these mods was a pretty weird design choice on SOE's part. They're a relatively minor part of the game, though, and even if your approximation is not provably AKurate, it certainly feels plausible and balanced. Also, TAKP players are at a big advantage over AK and Live players just due to the fact that we know how these things work, rather than having to parse and guess :p
     
  14. Slade

    Slade New Member

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  15. lurari

    lurari People Like Me

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    Correct.

    You're better off questing the vamp shield, unless you like mana and resists.
     
  16. Slade

    Slade New Member

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    In regards to some of the above posts discussing skill caps at various levels (ie 60 vs 65). I found the following, no idea if its accurate or not. This link seems to indicate that there are skill ups in parry/Riposte/ etc post 60.

    http://www.eqtitan.com/skillcaps.php?level=60
     
  17. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    Back slotted vamp shield is way over rated by people in our current softcap world.

    And eqtitan actually will calculate beyond lvl 65. There are GoD and OoW AA's listed, etc. Caps would have gone up by then.

    I will say it is interesting that the mod on the PAL/SK only shield does nothing for those classes. If other classes were on it, I could understand, but seems fishy.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  18. Devour_Souls

    Devour_Souls People Like Me

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    It's not AKurate. Look at the caps at 60, looks like a reflection of live data.
     
  19. swisswolf

    swisswolf New Member

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    maybe i've got something wrong, but knight parry should be 305/45 base, or 6.77 rounded down to 6, and with a 10% mod it would be 335/45 or 7.44 rounded down to 7? So why wouldn't the 10% mod work?

    -edit: i see the mod has been set to 50, not 45, so this can be safely ignored
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  20. Kovah

    Kovah Member

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    In regards to swiss' post above. is there any chance we have our bases incorrect? Ie should it be 45 instead of 50 for knights? I'm somewhat biased here as I play a knight, but as mokli mentions, it seems suspicious that a parry mod on a knight only item would have zero impact for knights.
     
  21. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Torven updated the denominators for parry and riposte around New Years, 2018. We discussed it upthread starting here. I think the denominators came from Torven parsing lots of defensive logs.

    I don't think the Sony dev(s) who did skill mod itemization had any idea how the code worked. Most of the skill mods in the game do absolutely nothing. This has to do with some fairly arcane geekery about integer vs. floating point arithmetic, which the content dev(s) were probably unaware of.