How does armor currently work here?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cerebro, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Hm, yeah Illicit's data raise a couple of red flags on TAKP dodge/parry/riposte/block code. I'd like to dig into it a little further, but can't make much headway without knowing
    1. What were the SK dodge/riposte/parry skill caps at level 65 on AK?
    2. How confident are we that defensive skills should get evaluated in the TAKP order, riposte > parry > (block >) dodge? Illicit thought (and his data perhaps suggest) that the order was parry > riposte > dodge.
     
  2. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    (fun fact, btw: as the code's currently written, the 15% riposte mod on bloodfrenzy should let a warrior with 225 unmodified skill riposte 9% of all incoming attacks, up from 7% unmodified. as if that sword needed to get any better!)
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  3. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing People Like Me

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    The answer to the correct order of the checks is apparently contained in our client's source code, and someone gave us the answer several years back. It's block, parry, riposte, dodge, shieldblock, avoidance, mitigation.

    (I don't think shieldblock is actually a thing for us, but apparently there's a lot of weird superfluous stuff like that in the client source.)
     
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  4. Darchon

    Darchon People Like Me

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    1. Block check
    2. Parry check
    3. Riposte check
    4. Dodge check
    5. Shield Block check
    6. Avoidance check

    It was commonly noted that swarming knights on Live didn't want Improved Parry modifiers because it reduced the number of riposte rolls they would get, thus reducing their DPS/Healing.

    This is the order on Live and has been for some time. I sort of just assumed it's been that way forever and Shield Block AA was just tossed in at the end there when that AA was added in OoW.

    And yes, Bloodfrenzy is OP. It's probably best in slot offhand even in PoTime because of that modifier.
     
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  5. lurari

    lurari Active Member

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    The way the order of operations was done on Live was confirmed by discing.

    Example: A ranger with Weaponshield on will parry everything. However, if an incoming attack was something-besides-parried, then it was assumed that something-besides-parry had to have rolled before parry.

    If this was in doubt, we could check old AK logs to confirm AKuracy:

    Deftdance gives 100% dodge, Weaponshield gives 100% parry, and Furious gives 100% riposte

    Check what happens when each of those discs are active. If warriors under furious don't parry or dodge, then riposte is first. If rangers never riposte while under weaponshield, then parry is first. If bards don't parry or riposte, then dodge is first.
     
  6. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Aha! That fits Illicit's data better. I believe it also means that TAKP's combat routines are out of order - or at least they were in the last open source version - and that mobs and players are riposting a bit too often atm.
     
  7. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Here are Illicit's data, with 99% Gaussian confidence intervals. (The estimates themselves depend on the data, so they're noisy and random. The confidence interval is the range in which, with approximately 99% probability, the true AK parry/riposte/dodge chance lies.) Although the parses were probably 10+ hours long, the sample size is actually still too small to draw really strong conclusions. Basing decisions on short parses is a bad idea!

    Anyhoo. No mods:
    • parry: 6.32 +/- 0.51 percent (likely 6% true chance)
    • riposte: 5.93 +/- 0.51 percent (likely 6% true chance)
    • dodge: 5.58 +/- 0.51 percent (likely 6% true chance)
    With mods:
    • parry: 7.11 +/- 0.41 percent (likely 7% true chance)
    • riposte: 6.15 +/- 0.40 percent (likely 6% true chance)
    • dodge: 6.22 +/- 0.41 percent (likely 6% true chance)
    The data are actually consistent with integer parry/riposte/dodge chances, like TAKP currently uses. I think that part is okay. What's weird is that the riposte chance appeared not to have been changed by the 12% riposte mod. The TAKP riposte chance function,
    Code:
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    suggests that at 200 unmodified skill, the 12% mod should have bumped the riposte chance from 6% to 7%. The others - 6% to 7% parry, no change to dodge - agree with the TAKP function and the AK knight skills of 205 parry, 170 dodge.

    (If you want to fiddle with that function, btw, the floor of a number is just the number rounded down to the nearest integer. So floor(2.38) = 2, floor(1.937) = 1, floor (328348.432) = 328348, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  8. Jugo!

    Jugo! Well-Known Member

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    Did Bragon, the Spider King keep logs of the numerous things he tanked on AK? If so, did he share?
     
  9. Torven

    Torven People Like Me Staff Member

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    Our code currently does: Rip, Block, Parry, Dodge; because: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...st-update-06-10-15.223510/page-2#post-3261772

    Parse results from my 2016 logs seem to agree with Dzarn, but I didn't use discs. Riposte/swing rate matches skill + 100 / 50, and parry/swing rate is noticeably less than skill + 100 / 45. Also parry rate went up with a fire beetle eye equipped (parry does not require a weapon).

    If there is hard evidence that AK was different (I wouldn't be surprised) then it needs to be changed.
     
  10. Jugo!

    Jugo! Well-Known Member

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    Testing if @Bragon works
    And it does! ding a ling, Bragon /grin