Thanks all for feedback on the proposal. It seems DPS parses and feedback from Rangers suggests this weapon is somewhere near the top of available primary weapon choices currently. Rangers that have it say they love it, use it all the time, and parse data supports its usefulness from a dps aspect. There is also some argument that it might occasionally be useful for other listed classes in some circumstances. I made a little table to allow for comparison visualization. Does this look accurate? Would it be fair to say that if each guild could kill this mob on their own, within the confines of their current loot system, the dagger would be awarded to a Ranger with high probability? That is, it's farly safe to assume a DKP bidding situation would result in Rangers bidding higher than other classes. And in a 'loot council' situation, it would most likely be perferred for Rangers? Since these special event items are so rare, does it not make sense to try and optimise the usefulness of these items to the best of our abilities? I'm fairly sure that a Ranger winnning a roll on this item is viewed as "most favorable" outcome by majority of participants, while any other class winning it would result in some contraversy. So why not aim to achieve this favorable outcome when we have the power to make it happen? The open raid nature of these events creates some limitations around loot distribution. The simplest/fairest method is just to random between participants. But, additional rules can be made by players to try and optimise things. I still believe it would be really favorable to make this item a Ranger only roll. Thanks for listening again.
Where do you stop optimizing? There's many rangers that are played just for (mostly) ranged dps in the trio, are they allowed to roll? Since this proc is so beneficial for the solo ranger, shouldn't you then optimize by restricting to only solo rangers? In order to roll you have to post a screenshot of game accounts to show you're a level 60 solo ranger? And then to further optimize, should it go to whichever solo ranger has the highest /played time or AA count? This is an awfully silly discussion. There's one more spawn and no guarantee of a drop. A year from now raiding rangers are going to have higher DPS weapons, and the only benefit then is going to be the proc. The difference in average healing between a ranger with all AA and a warrior is going to be small, and a ranger has other ways to heal themselves as well. Keep it an open roll. As Yarnee already said, don't get mad if you lose a lottery.
So, now that everyone knows how amazing (and broken) it is for Rangers compared to other classes, everyone can make a better judgement on whether they choose to roll on it or not next time.
this thread makes me feel like I'm reading monks in Y2K rant about an open Naggy or Vox raid where a non-monk won a WR bag that classic EQ experience
Maybe it should be restricted to rangers with less than 50 AAs. As it would likely help them the most.
Maybe we could compromise and say less than 50aas or more than 150aas. That way its either going to be a massive upgrade for them, or they've played long enough to have everything they probably need and can utilize the value of it? Anywhere in between and you're just not committing.
sounds like it would be easier so i dont see how it could also be challenging. yes you won it fair, congo rats.
It makes sense to optimise only to a point where benefit outweighs the effort. Trying to add all that additional criteria would be subjective, and very impractical to actually implement or verify. I'm only suggesting optimisation with least effort for most benefit. There is objective evidence that rangers are the best suited class, and implementing this rule would be very simple and effective. Zero effort besides some agreement. I don't think it's a silly discussion. We are discussing a rarest weapon in the game that can only drop maximum 3 times a year. It is potentially uber / OP for one class, and kind of "maybe I'll equip it sometimes" for every other class. I think it's worth the effort to try and improve the limitations of the existing loot distribution method. Nobody will be mad at losing the lottery to a fellow Ranger. But there is an undeniable feeling of disappointment if a non Ranger gets it. I'll go back to this point: If your own guild was killing this mob, would you be happier if a Ranger wins it, or another class? Do you think it's highly likely a Ranger would bid most DKP for this if they could? Do you think it's almost certain that a loot council decision would award to Ranger? If it's almost a given that it would go to a Ranger in any normal raid situation, then why are we making things worse on purpose? Well, there is presently evidence to the contrary.
i dont want to FTE stuff thats why i play on AK/TAKP. This is the only time of year i get to raid with friends that arent in my guild, its supposed to be FUN, am i the only one having fun?
It was a raid ANYONE could attend, there were 300 people there, apologies that everyone wasnt up to your standards. Really disappointed in this thread. Arguing over who deserves stuff more youre all acting like entitled brats.
Maybe he should drop 8 daggers for last kill. So that all those that lose the roll will feel worse. Then we can do a gofundme to get them therapy for depression.
If you're in favour of the minor improvement to this otherwise successful and inclusive serverwide event, could i ask that you speak with your guild representatives. Perhaps if all the guild leaders / officers agree in the GL forum, we still might have time to save the next dagger drop. If there's no appetite from leadership to address this, then so be it. Such is the downside of any multi guild events, even though it's easily fixable imo. I've said my argument, thanks for the conversation. He may not spawn with dagger next time, and situation will be different next year. But, if he drops dagger again and it goes to a wizard, then yeah... I'll be very sad. Can't say I didn't at least try.
I have been busy over the new year, but I've got some time now. I will make post in the leader forum asking if we would like to make soul pricker a ranger only item should it drop from the final kill. If the majority of raiding forces agree, then I will alter and announce the edit. FOR NOW please proceed with the understanding that the rules are intact as is, and that there may not be adequate input or that the proposal may be voted down. Also, if the proposal is voted through, you must be prepared to lose the roll to another ranger who is either better geared, less well geared, has more aa's, less aa's, is the right race, the wrong race, is an alt, a main, in your guild, another guild, or unguilded. As for the messiness of the raid, it is difficult to keep things tidy when we have so many players. We've had some ideas afterwards of how to mitigate the problems and hopefully make things smoother. With that in mind, this is an open raid and I can't make any promises, so pack your bib in case things get sloppy.
Inact, you are appreciated. It's actually funny to watch half the raid get feared with the zerg force. Sorry I spoke what every ranger on the server was thinking when a chanter looted Soul Pricker. Please don't take it personally. You all did a great job. I would like to correct Mokli on one little detail. If NAG did "most" of the work on both kills, how did Tems end up with the exp on the first one? ;p just poking fun Good luck to all of you in PoP!
Did I say did most of the work? I said engaged first, because Walex pet pulled him down. That was in response to the banish on those not in the raid for the first engage that Darchon recommended. It was referring to what Darchon said and that we wouldn't want that. If I implied or said something different I'm sorry. Despite disagreeing on the distribution of the Soulpricker, I most certainly have no ill will towards anyone here. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing you all in PoP and good luck to you as well.
Seriously, can we get back the the Rangers and arrows/corners conversation? (ok... too much (sorry Haynar)). Thanks for all you do! ;d edit: @ Mokli - misread one of your posts about NAG doing the work... regardless, cheers... I was honestly just having some fun
At the end of the day many of these loot issues boil down to misaligned incentives. The problem with /random loot is that there's no cost to rolling on or winning an item. I have a proposal that might make people's rolls a bit more thoughtful: -If a player rolls on and wins an item, in order to loot the item they have to pay 50k to the raid. Because it's a PITA to distribute 50k to all participants in the raid, the reward can be evenly split between the participating guilds, for purposes of funding their guild banks. If there are 5 guilds participating in the raid, 4 items drop, that's 200k / 5 = 40k for each guild. I suggest an even split instead of pro-rata so that we don't create incentives for unnecessary boxing. I believe this pay-to-loot proposal will help to ensure that players actually want the item, and value it at at least 50k. This will also improve feelings of goodwill since everyone's guild will benefit.
Yea but that eliminates a lot of people who don't have that much plat who would actually appreciate and use the item. I just got JC to 213 and Fletch to 236... I am not even sure I have that much plat lying around. I think that might be a little too narrowing. In the end, I definitely created more of a storm than intended and yes, I will cringe if another chanter wins one of those ever. There have been some really good points brought forth on these server event threads and some good opinions. I am a little put off by the "quit your whining" posts. Nobody is whining, this is constructive conversation. At the end of the day, it's a game and game forums are for discussion. If you don't like the discussion, then honestly go elsewhere.
If you can't make 50k before the next MM raid then you don't want it bad enough. I'm kind of joking - you have a point that it's short notice. But for next year's events with notice, people who want will save up their plat. 50k is not an absurd number for these types of items.
The best way to approach these raids imo is to act like the loot doesnt exist. We are arguing over an item that very well may not drop once in a year. I cant believe this discussion is even still going quite frankly lol.
The first year of Torven's anniversary event was amazing. The mystery and the problem solving, the covertness of some, interest in the new items, and checking forums and Discord every few hours to see if anyone had learned anything new. I was sad when it was over. What a truly amazing job. Now, it's turned into a vending machine. Which makes me sad.
In all of my many years of EQ I've never owned 50k. I'd don't think I've ever held more than 25 or so.
I tend to agree with Devour. The last 2 years of this event have been pretty disappointing since it turned from an event you had to work out the abilities of the mob and figure out a strategy to one where 300 characters show up and 40 bards roll for a dwarf mask they know will drop. Id like to see Mayong not naturally spawn anymore but instead some mechanic that causes him to spawn. Also throw on a banish for engaging him outside of the raid that intially aggroed him and let individual guilds or alliance work out whatever loot rules they deem fit for it. Perhaps bundle it in with the other weapon quest. Each weapon can rarely turn into a D Token which spawns Mayong.
Yeah, the only reason I have just over that now is because I looted a mount from a Com in SSRA and sold it. I totally am in the same boat. Farming 50k is simply not fun and would be a big barrier for many.
