Reading through the bard tank thread got me thinking... What do you guys think - assuming both are well geared, would make a better tank? Beastlord or Ranger? And why?
All things being equal, Ranger; higher AC soft cap. http://wiki.takp.info/index.php?title=AC_Softcaps_by_Class
All things are not equal, though, as Beastlords get Block while Rangers are stuck with Parry. But it seems both classes occupy that 'offensive class with enough defense to handle non-raid content in raid gear' slot that Monks do on P99. I wonder why I don't see more Beastlords using shields. It would seem to be a relatively small sacrifice when most of their damage comes from their pet anyway, and it's a pretty substantial increase in AC.
Defensive AA would only set Beastlord and Ranger mitigation further apart, as they are all percentage increases. 200 block cap vs 220 parry cap, I wonder which is more effective.
Don't beastlords get a stonestance disc like monks? That would be way more effective than ranger discs as a tank. Weaponshield has like 1hr cooldown, stonestance was 10 minutes or less iirc.
12 seconds of mitigation on a 4 minute timer which sounds pretty nice. So 5% of the time they tank better than rangers.
<shakes Monk tail in rage at yet another Beastlord ability> But seriously, I really wonder how Verant ever thought Beastlords were balanced. They are actually better than both of their parent classes at defense (higher AC cap/returns than Monks, with similar defensive skills and infinite aggro), regen spells (chloro+SP is 17 hp 7 mana/tick vs regrowth 15 hp, and Beastlords can use the fungi staff), HP buffs (Kragg + Spiritual Vigor is 620 HP vs Focus of Soul 544), ATK buffs (Savagery line is clearly better than Avatar, and it isn't on a line of easily obtainable proccing weapons) and of course their warder pets are far superior to the shaman wolves. And their flexibility is great for boxing. I'm real tempted to make a Beastlord twink with a fungi tunic/staff, primals, ikatiar armor, and so on and pair with a Necromancer (both Iksar, of course). I think this combo would absolutely plow through dungeons. Or, Beastlord+Cleric seems excellent as well. And yet, I don't seem to see that many Beastlords.
Beastlords can't use fungi tunics sadly. I believe at that time Sony thought it was better to not have a bunch of low level twinks running around. Block has always seemed better than parry to me, but it could be all in my head. Where a ranger shines in tanking is possibly being the best and fastest hate producer. A flame lick and a vines cast will keep anything on you. A beastlord shines in being able to slow on the pull, so any initial dmg taken from an unslowed mob is removed. That can sometimes feel like they are a better tank.
Rangers tank significantly better, especially as expansions progress. I tanked regularly in the Elemental Planes for exp, so it was doable (I would often use a shield or 2HB), but it was much more difficult than Rangers doing the same thing. Rangers get a lot more AC and easier access to better shields.
also lets compare the top geared beast to the top gear ranger currently: https://www.takproject.net/magelo/character.php?char=Bumbum vs https://www.takproject.net/magelo/character.php?char=Linkamus I would say we tank about equal with his little more hp/ac compared to my tanking like a non-nerfed monk but with mitigation. There isn't anything a ranger can tank that I can't.
QFT I made a BST and have been leveling him. Lightly twinked. And so far, he tanks just fine. That pet is amazing. Always use the proc buffs on pet and get addition buffs that help dex on bst pet. I think bst pet buff proc rate gets up to 7.5/min at 255 dex. It is a crazy proc rate.
Exactly. The funny thing is that as much as people talk about broken P99 monks, they aren't really amazing tanks due to low threat generation. Meanwhile Beastlords get 90% of the supposedly overpowered Monk avoidance, a very good AC table, flash of light/Sha's for threat, AND they can afford to wear shields without destroying their threat. And even after the Monk AC cap was raised to 350, Beastlords still got higher returns. Really the only thing that explains Beastlords to me is that Verant intentionally overtuned them as the first new class since classic. I bet Berserkers were similarly overtuned for a few expansions when they were released in . . . GoD? Also I'd take Tigree's gear over Bum any day. So a beastlord pet can get more snare attempts than a Monk + Shaman combined, and without sacrificing weapon quality. <shakes Monk tail in rage> But I'm also kind of curious; are NPCs just on a better proc table or something? Because that should be 3 for a PC, right?
Bst pet proc buffs, have a specific proc rate modifier to them. Only those spells have that modifier during our era. Its not the pet. Its the bst only pet buff with the proc. Going from memory. Normal rates. Its like 2 main hand + 1 offhand, for 3 max at 255 dex.
Heh, I am with Raev on this. The best gear is raid gear and you don't raid enough, Bum. I think Tigree is the best geared BST on the server. As to ranger tanks vs BST tanks, I would give the edge to rangers due to the higher AC soft cap.
With rangers having a higher soft cap and more AC *over* the soft cap due to wearing chain instead of leather, I'm not really sure what there is to argue about.. Is 200 block really that much (or at all) better than 220 parry? I'd be surprised if that was the case. Though I don't know the math that goes into both of those skills, so I'd definitely be willing to admit being wrong.
Ranger and BST returns over cap are the same, but Rangers will get a larger boost from AA due to higher soft cap.
http://www.allakabor.com/smf/index.php?action=eqitem&id=24573 http://www.allakabor.com/smf/index.php?action=eqitem&id=22980
Yea little baby wolves - ive had them before. I also remember how happy ader was to get his timespinner - to have the pet stand around and die w/o attacking anything lol. Still - I'd give the edge to beastlords due to the ability to wait on a heal when shit gets too real.
Yes, block is (very roughly) twice as effective as the other avoidance skills. I think the numbers are floating around the old "how does AC work" thread somewhere in this forum. I don't doubt rangers are a little bit sturdier than beastlords, but both made really excellent back-up tanks even in PoP. We used both rangers and beastlords as offtanks for Phase 1 trials in PoTime, for example, and they held up just fine against anything other than named and a couple of the more murderous skellies from the Undead trial. And of course Ader tanked Xegony. Just ask him!
Ya, I know the swarm pets can't tank anything, I was joking . Raven - interesting on block vs parry. I'd be interested in seeing some parses between an equally raid geared BST / RNG. Oh, the memories! Hopefully again, one day
Guess it depends on the scenario for tanking. But for raid tanking that pet isn't taking over unless your solo meleeing. For 3 boxing hard group content I'd probably go with beast because of the mit disc and wearing a shield without losing so much dps(pet).
Not even close, Bum. Your 10 more AC is effectively +1 over Tig due to overcap return. She has a ton more mana, higher FT and average resists are over 132 while yours are avg 92 which probably more than makes up for your 160 hp advantage. You are geared well but not better. This is not true for a single character on the server.
