Courtesy and Etiquette over Named Spawns

It is not a move in there type of thing solar, I have killed Guakr, camped out in the safe corner to work for 6 hours, logged back to every giant in sight being spawned. Am I expected to /ooc is anyone coming for this mob thats spawned with everything around him up?

 

One clarification that I am already glad to have for myself is that Earth wing in BoT is in fact considered one camp. Honestly, I did not know this, I don't think most of Blood Guard knew/knows this, and this is actually central to at least one issue I saw happen, so again, it's good to communicate and clarify.

 

There's nothing unusual about this circumstance. Log in, ask if someone is currently camping earth (because they are, in fact, there first). If they are, communicate your intent with them, if it is empty, grats on your mob.

Logging in the room of the named to bypass a group intending on clearing that named does not sound kosher to me.

 

Yes, I think BoT has had some problematic behavior that is strictly against the rules. I think that Haynar's warning should be taken seriously.

I've personally bumped into two people's camps (not in BoT) that I didn't mean to. One camp I didn't even think would be considered a camp, so I just grabbed some mobs. One camp, the other group had just arrived and started clearing, but they setup in a slightly different spot than I do for that camp, and with out being able to see through walls, it appeared that the camp was fully respawned. In both cases, I mezzed, blurred, and gtfo as soon as the group made a comment, and those groups went from threateningly to amiable in a heartbeat.

But to your Tables/Grakur camp, I think if you can't pull it to the spot where you're killing inside of 10 minutes of it spawning, you can't consider it to be part of your camp. A line's gotta be drawn somewhere, and you don't have to be aggressive to hold the line. Similarly, if you're traveling around killing mobs (rather than pulling) making a sort of circuit, if there's more than a 10 minute gap in the mobs you're killing, it's not part of your camp.

So if you're at Tables, and you can manage to kill everything at tables and between tables and Grakur, and no mobs are up for 10 minutes after they respawn, then I think you have the rules on your side. If you could leave tables, kill grakur, and be back before Table had been respawned for 10 minutes, you'd have the rules on your side. I'm glad you worked something out with the group coming in for Grakur, and I think that sort of behavior is what makes this server extra good. But based on your description, I don't think there would be anything actionable if you left for Grakur, and lost the Tables camp.

Then there's Solar's point, which I think holds up pretty well in some of the older and smaller zones. If you've got your over-powered toons helping your sub-50 alt level up in guk by pulling the whole zone, even though you *can* and *are* killing everything, maybe it's a little rude to continue to claim the whole zone when a group of sub-50 explorers attempt to test their collective mettle against some Undead Frogs. Afterall, the server rules define a camp using the word "small". It's rightly vague, and the spirit of the rule seems to me to make room for other people to *also* enjoy this game.

Anything any of us does to help someone else to *also* enjoy the game is what I think sets this server apart, even if it's not something I think we should consider codifying and enforcing.

 

I think this varies from group to group. I don't think it's *always* every group that's able to kill every spawn in the Earth wing within 10 minutes of it respawning. I'll echo the general sentiment that when in doubt, ask, and always respond.

 

Just make the nameds a 1 hour respawn.

 

This is my first post here, but I will say this struck a chord. Please don't prioritize short terms gains (you kill a named mob that spawns every 6hr or 3 day or w/e) over long term happiness (a server full of generous, courteous people).

I have seen the end of the path of arguing over rules in Everquest. Trust me, no one is having fun there.

 

Then sounds like I dont log, just sit in the room and claim earth on all CC while waiting 6 hours? There seems to be no middle ground here. If I intend on camping this one mob with a 6 hour respawn while im working, I just sit there then?

 

I think the confusion is this is a play nice and get along server. Running invis past a group to snipe the wing boss, while there are active camps and groups in the area, is just a dick move.

Having the timer to the wing bosses does not give you the right to invis up to run past groups camping and gank them every 6 hours.

And dont give me the P99 BS rules of needing to be in sight of the spawn. Thats like arguing you can camp a max of 3 mobs at a time in certain areas of BOT.

Learn some courtesy and play nice with others.

 

You are trying to create a new camp in the midst of an existing camp. This occurred on p99 at the Hierophant camp, pre-Velious. Shamans would log out their Shaman at the hiero room corner and log in every 20 some minutes to kill it. Splitting the crypt camp up into two smaller camps where one person is claiming only one mob and calling it a camp. In that scenario, the result was that if a group comes and the single person could not clear all the mobs at that camp they were required to vacate the camp. Splintering camps is a road to lawyerquesting. In TAKP you can do Guakr in the same way by camping out a trio and logging in every 6 hours.

That road leads to p99 level lawyerquesting. Log in, see who is already camping that wing, communicate and yes, you will lose out on some spawns. Server isn't going anywhere.

 

This goes right back to Haynar's statement that knowing the mob timer does not grant entitlement to the mob itself. Are you there and actively clearing the camp before the mob spawns because no one else is there? Great. Are you logging on 5 minutes before the mob is due and leapfrogging the existing group in earth? Not so great.

 

So if I am the first person in earth for the day, I can just sit in guakrs room and claim the whole thing, while not killing a thing and waiting 6 hours? You get my point nemce, I am not interested in clearing the whole camp, but that one mob. If I choose to sit at the spot and touch nothing else am I expected to vacate?

 

What's the policy on the piglet in Tactics?

I've gotten so many tells that I'm "not allowed" to call piglet when I say piglet/sw pit during camp checks, even though I camp where I can see the spawn point and snare it within seconds of spawn.

 

If you want to hold the boss, you have to become interested in killing the entire camp. It's one camp. If no one is there, sure snipe away. If someone IS clearing the whole camp then you can't hold guakr if you can't clear the earth wing bosses. The earth wing is one camp. You cannot hold guakr, oreen, leaf, or fire guy as a trio and create a new camp. Each one of them is capable of being trio'd. They do not make a camp themselves.

 

Tldr dont be a dick

 

Gaukr is not a camp, the wing is a camp. If you aren't active, it isn't your camp. BOT is now and forever will be an exp zone. Stop trying to lawyer this.

 

Most of the people here know the plane of fear meme and after that situation I've been conscious to take a step back and try not to be too adversarial about camps and spawns and the like and its been a good 4 years since then. With that said, despite having been burned a couple times in BoT I have been generally enjoying the competitiveness of the zone and the original owners of the zone were extremely accommodating and communicative when other guilds started moving in on the territory so I'd like to open up by thanking them for that courtesy.

I'm pretty sure that we can all agree if nobody is in the wing at all and you want to invis in, snipe the named and port out there's nothing wrong with that.

If a trio is spotted in the wing that you want, you should call a camp check. Equally important to this is answering camp checks, if someone is chilling at the Elif Whitewind room and not hardcoring it, they might not mind if someone clears the entrance or the Laef Windfall room. On the other side of that coin is Earth which can easily sustain 2 groups, 3 if nobody is doing poop your pants because you can't look away for a second charming, anyone questioning this is just being greedy or lazy about the idea of 'dirtying' themselves with having to communicate with someone else. In fact I would go as far as to challenge any group with less than 3 enchanters to even down the entire wing without having entire rooms repopped and idle.

There have been several times where the named spawn time is approaching and I've seen a trio at the entrance of water or lightning and simply asked the trio if they had more coming to help them clear the whole wing or if they minded if I went to park in the back. If they say they have more coming, I move on, its not the end of the world. With Earth if there's a camp at tables, 9 out of 10 times they've been cool with us parking at the platform and clearing down to (sometimes including) forges. Even without the named, those back corners are one of the few legit safe spots in the zone with no pathers where you can form up, med break and/or recover without worry of mobs or even trains for that matter. On top of that, if you aren't after the tables named, its better exp anyway because Kriegers have a billion hp and you could kill 3 militis in the time it takes to kill a single krieger PH.

Another part of the discussion that seems to be (conveniently) missing is: does capability of clearing a camp necessitate rights to hold a camp? They talk about the AFK group that was clearly killing mobs because spawns are missing (have been killed recently) being given 10 minutes to respond and I agree with that sentiment. My question is how does that jive with 'failing the contested targets' as I've been leapfrogged no less than twice after we had all but the two adjacent mobs next to the named cleared and a failed paci kill a puller, something that takes 2 minutes to recover from.

 

According to who? If I am there first, my interest is my own. You don't get to tell me what I have to do to stake a claim to a camp I first and continue to hold a presence at. Kill tables, kill everything else in earth, I dont care..if I was first Guakr and continue to be there, it is my camp.

 

K i will kill 2 trash mobs every 20 minutes to be active..understood.

 

Keep playing this game and you wont be killing anything. Understood?

 

I agree with the "a single mob is not a camp" however I still think the emphasis is communication. You can say that on paper the earth wing is a camp, but in practice it has consistently been sustaining 3 groups who have been willing to communicate with one-another effectively with camps at entrance, tables and back end, one time there was a 4th group chilling at forges without any issue. Again, if a single group can keep the whole wing down and demonstrate that, they have earned the wing to themselves, but I've yet to see anyone achieve this.

 

I might make a video

 

The original link is defunt so if you have it saved anywhere please reupload. Classic piece of TAKP history.

 

I agree with the intent behind your two posts Jon. This conversation is not a difficult one to understand for anyone that isn't trying to snipe named with as little effort as possible.

 

I think we have found the problem folks. Sir, you are incorrect. The server staff will not support you. Change your tone or change your server, but we left p99 to leave this crap behind. Know your audience.

 

Nah its gone forever unfortunately

 

This is like LowerGuk where you had Lord+AM camp clearing the froggies, and then somebody comes and parks in AM room and claims that mob as their own camp.

Or Sebilis Disco2 group camping the area, and somebody parking up at Broog and claiming that single mob is their camp.

May wanna re-prioritize your pixel hunger there friend-o.

 

lol ive never killed guakr, playing devils advocate...have no pixel hunger

 

Does this only apply to the wing bosses on the 6 hour timers?

I ask because it seems a lot more restrictive than I understood camp etiquette to be. I do a lot of camps where I'm just killing PHs/Named and taking an AFK before respawns while I med to full. Requiring that I be able to keep an entire wing clear pretty much makes me ineligible to be in the zone, especially as a trio. If I am keeping 1 room with 3 spawns (1 of which is a PH/named) clear and AFKing between re-pops, do I need to give up the camp if someone comes in and says they can do the whole wing?