8-3-2022

Discussion in 'Changelog' started by robregen, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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    greaves are 1 second cast time

    the difference between those two timestamps is 6 seconds

    therefore it cannot be the greaves pulsing twice
     
  2. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    I think the idea is that items would pulse like normal bard songs, which pulse every 6 seconds. The timestamps certainly indicate that the greaves were casted once, pulsed once and then the song was stopped, but I was offering an alternative (albeit unlikely) scenario that could lead to those same logs.
     
  3. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    On the subject of the ornate greaves and BP, there are many examples in Torven's logs. It's extremely clear that they pulsed, just as if a song had been cast from a spell gem, until manually ended. There isn't any reasonable doubt about that, only about instant-cast songs, like the Grioihin lute, which I do tend to think were true, spammable instant-clickies.

    It's nuts that nobody has a log of one being used. Temerity alone saw a dozen Grioihin lutes drop on AK!

    EC and PC, like Chorus of Marr, don't have landing messages. We can see this in logs and also just by looking at the spell data (lucy.alkabor.com displays both land and fade messages where they exist). But you're 100% right about WoMarr! For people with access to logs I don't have, grepping for "Marr renews" could help answer the Lute/BoH question: if this message is spammed in group, it probably means the Lute is a true instant-clicky that doesn't leave you with a pulsing song that has to be turned off.

    You know, I agreed with these two posts reflexively when I first read them, but on second thought, I do distinctly remembering Kazumi's keeping my songs greyed out indefinitely after casting, because I wondered whether it would eventually pulse again if I just left it singing for 180 seconds (it did not). And sure enough:

    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:18 2013] You feel protected.
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:23 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:23 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:23 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:23 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:23 2013] Lord Yelinak begins to cast a spell.
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:25 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:25 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:25 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:27 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:27 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:27 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:32 2013] Chymot begins to cast a spell.
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:33 2013] You no longer feel protected.
    [Tue Oct 29 13:14:51 2013] Your song ends.

    [Tue Oct 29 15:02:27 2013] You feel protected.
    [Tue Oct 29 15:02:30 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 15:02:30 2013] Lord Yelinak tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Tue Oct 29 15:02:31 2013] Lord Yelinak begins to cast a spell.
    [Tue Oct 29 15:02:38 2013] Your song ends.
    [Tue Oct 29 15:02:39 2013] You stop floating.
    [Tue Oct 29 15:02:39 2013] You no longer feel protected.

    The second example, in particular, is indisputable: you can't start another song with DA on, only end one. Solar's change here is correct.
     
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  4. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Logs don't seem to support this contention, and I have to say, that seems right: I don't remember charm-pet-mezzing bards spamming their chat windows with hundreds of "did not take hold" messages.

    That said, as Solar points out, the lack of any "did not take hold" messages for songs in existing bard logs could be a filtering issue.
     
  5. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    Seems crazy to me, but you're right, this is pretty clear cut.
     
  6. Delorne

    Delorne People Like Me

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    I stand corrected on DA song. But this is the same problem we have with Composers Greaves.

    Your log demonstrates the song ends for Kazumi's 8 seconds after the buff fades. And that's it. Why broadly apply that to a group of songs (or items in the greaves case) perceived to be similar?

    DA song shares a recast delay with other songs. But it is also the only song that prevents you from singing other songs while the buff is active. It's also a group beneficial song where Charm is a single target detrimental with a mana cost, while requiem of time and ancient mez are single target detrimental without mana cost. There are more differences between these songs than there are similarities.

    Making changes where you have proof is cool. But it seems excessive to do more than that. It also seems backwards asking others to provide logs to prove unsubstantiated changes wrong.
     
  7. actualspaide

    actualspaide People Like Me

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    I was saying in guild yesterday i have a vague memory of having to stopsong on slow. I think this change is accurate. Although my memory could fully be wrong here tbf.
     
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  8. Defect

    Defect New Member

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    I'm noticing since the last patch that Rain AE spells are now trying to hit friendly (group owned) charm pets, where previously they would not. As an example, in a party with an enchanter with a charm pet hitting a target enemy, if I as a wizard cast Tears of Ro on the enemy target, the following is observed:

    Pre-patch: Tears of Ro attempts to hit the enemy target 3 times, and I get either a resist or a damage message from each attempt
    Post-patch: Tears of Ro attempts to hit the enemy target 2 times and the charmed pet 2 times; I get two "Your spell did not take hold" messages, and 2 of either a damage message or a resist message.

    I have not been able to test whether summoned pets are causing the same behavior or not.

    This is obviously to significant detriment of rain spells, and as it was not mentioned in the changelog, I'm not sure whether it was intended or an unintentional byproduct.
     
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  9. Radda

    Radda Well-Known Member

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    why dosn't Selo's Song of Travel from Melodic Breastplate (or one of the other three velious bps) continue to play yet composer greaves do?
     
  10. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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  11. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    For I’m sure some technical reasons they couldn’t resolve at the time, several bard effects were cloned with the same name but are a different spell ID entirely. The Selos BPs from Velious are one example. The levitate boots from Kunark are another.
     
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  12. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    I think the reason was to give those clicks longer lasting effects. Both of the examples you gave are 5 min buffs, vs the 3-tick of standard song duration
     
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  13. solar

    solar I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Only these items have real bard songs on them.

    Breath of Harmony
    Whistling Fists (not bard)
    Robe of the Whistling Fists (not bard)
    Composers Chestplate
    Composers Greaves
    A Mandolin (GM item)
    Lute of the Flowing Waters
    War Drums of the Rathe
    Denon's Drums of Declivity
     
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  14. Radda

    Radda Well-Known Member

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    right okay. just making sure.
     
  15. solar

    solar I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Thanks, will make the pets not count against the limit.
     
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  16. solar

    solar I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Thanks, I will change the two instant cast bard items to act like a normal instant clicky.
     
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  17. Defect

    Defect New Member

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    Thanks very much!

    After a little more time in game, it seems what I said might be applying to all AoE spells - I think I was getting "did not take hold" messages for things like the wizard AoE snare, and maybe even PBAE like color stuns, when a charmed pet was in range. Perhaps these will all be naturally affected by your fix as well, but figured I'd mention just in case.
     
  18. solar

    solar I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    I think AoE spells have to hit pets and players or else it wouldn't work in PvP situations. I'll see about tweaking that some more though, thanks.
     
  19. Elroz

    Elroz I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Yeah I kind of remember detri ae spells trying to hit players (someone tries to cast a spell on you, but you're protected), I don't think limited target ones did though (like rains or wizard snare etc), or if they did, it didn't count toward the target limit.
     
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  20. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    I think that targeted AE spells and rains do try to hit players and player pets but, as Marv says, only NPCs count toward the target limit.
     
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  21. kai4785

    kai4785 People Like Me

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    Since the Composer pants and legs clickie will now pulse, they are actually interesting now.
    Follow up question. Will they benefit from instrument mods? Selo's with out instrument mods is still not max speed at 65 with all the AAs. Warsong DS increases with instrument mods.
    Follow up x2, same question for puretone.
     
  22. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    Yes, pants have always benefited from instrument mods (same as war drums, ornate BP, drums of declivity and any item with a real bard song). Yes, puretone mods these items.
     
  23. solar

    solar I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    I think they're a lot less useful without instrument mods and I was trying to make these be good but it does appear that they don't get instrument mods on live. The two instant ones actually had the bard song removed and replaced with a spell which of course can't get bard mods. Unless people here complain loudly I'd rather have these work with instrument mods.
     
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  24. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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  25. Break

    Break People Like Me

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  26. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

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  27. kai4785

    kai4785 People Like Me

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    Also in that patch:
    "Bards Using Components - Bards using right-click items with a casting time greater than 0 will now expend any required components."
    "Sneak - Sneak will now work under water."

    Lots of old behavior confirmed, and new behaviors we won't get.
     
  28. Break

    Break People Like Me

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    I'm definitely never asking for Sol Ro ornate again; bullet dodged for bards!
     
  29. solar

    solar I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    The clicky bard song items do receive instrument mods here and clickies don't consume reagents for bards (The Binden Concerrentia) . The instrument mods don't seem to work on live anymore for these items, but I think this was broken inadvertently like usual with bards.
     
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  30. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

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    Yeah, I just posted to give a timeline. Its after LoY for example.