Raiding Guide/Polcies.

So now Starvald only gets 48 hours to kill a Dragon but everyone else gets a week? How is that fair? Why are the GM's messing up the rotation? and How come Destiny all of the sudden gets an open week back to back when they should have to wait 'til next rotation? This week should belong to Starvald. How is any of this fair? Can we please keep this fair?

 

Naggy spawned on the 24th, and Speedz stated that he would respawn dragons on the 27th. Thats more like 72 hours. And you had a week prior to the 24th to communicate with everyone about how the next few naggys would be handled. Starvald cant muster a force in 72 hours to kill a dragon?
C'mon man stop the complaining and get on top of things and communicate with your guild leader, the other guild leaders, and the GMs.

 

Dude i'm going by the rotation that is posted. I will not shut up. How are we supposed to 'just know' to kill a dragon that is scheduled to someone else???

"Get on top of things!? Quit complaining!?"
Sir, I'm just calling it like i see it. If you dont like it - feel free to move along and ignore me.

If the rotation is going to be changed it should happen on an Open week. Not on an established guilds week.

Where's the accountability?

 

Oiwon if destiny want to kill it 2-3 times in a row they can, thats how the server works, live with it! long live destiny

 

Oiwon if you look back to the original rotation posted at the beginning of this thread, The 4th week which ends March 28th was an open week for Naggy. I sent a message to Zarwayne weeks ago asking if the 4th week ended Saturday or Sunday as we wanted to do Naggy on a Sunday. He told me Sunday began week 5 so we scheduled it for Saturday? The weeks originally were slated to start on Sundays. Probably I'm guessing because March 1st was a Sunday. There were originally no dates just week 1, week 2 etc. When I asked if Sunday 3/29 was week 4 or 5 and Zarwayne answered its week 5 so we scheduled it the 28th, the thread was edited (I am guessing by Zarwayne) to add dates to the weeks so people like me wouldn't be confused.

In fact yesterday I was discussing with Adaephon and Carp in the guild leaders section about the fact that I didn't know (neither did they) if the Friday pop was in effect yet. I told them I'd ask and I went into irc chat and asked. They told me it was starting this Friday so I told Adaephon SD might as well kill Naggy since it was going to repop on Friday.

How did Destiny get an extra week?

 

The rotation also works like this for qualifications:

when a guild completes a dragon on the open cycle they are slotted into that open spot; causing the open slot to be pushed out by 1 week. everyone should still have 1 week to kill their respective dragons; starvald may have something else going but that is their choice.

 

If you don't like administering the GM forced-rotation then maybe that's what should be dropped. Rotations get bitched about everywhere, and especially here where it was put on us prematurely and unnecessarily. Nobody wants to deal with the administrative side of it at all, and nobody wants to compromise because there's no real motivation to do so. It's just whatever the server staff feels like setting the rotation to every week. I feel like this whole thing was a terrible experiment that nobody will admit to so it just keeps getting strung along and changed every week. Threatening to depop the dragons to punish people after you initiated the entire process is disheartening.

-Adaephon Delat, Starvald Demelain

 

werd, f naggy/vox

-Adaephon Delat, Starvald Demelain

 

Don't know if you are still updating this thread.
<Austerity> killed Naggy/Vox on May 23rd.

 

Hail,

How is everyone? We had a nice refreshing summer off and are excited about ROK and stuff, can Starvald Demelain get back on the rotation? Is there still a rotation?

Thanks,
Adaephon

 

If roles were reversed, how would you answer this? Actually, in this same thread:

Did I miss something when you guys no showed on your week then disappeared without a word? Not that I want to get off on the wrong foot if you guys are coming back, but I'd like to make sure I'm caught up on the details before putting in my 2c.

 

Sweet, ROK is where things get fun, I extend my gratitude to the tireless work put forth by all involved in preservation of a masterpiece. I kept updated on the patch notes and I applaud the attention to detail being adhered to.

I would say "Hail & well met traveler. Yes, you may rejoin the rotation, thanks for taking the summer off and allowing us guilds that weren't as fast to killing dragons as you guys get caught up in loot farming and spreading loot equality!"

You missed nothing. The quote you are linking is from the early days of the server, when only one guild was capable of killing Lady Vox, yet for some reason there was a forced rotation on her which resulted in a cycle that alternated between said guild and an open week, which meant that 50% of vox's were just left up to rot a whole week.

What details are you seeking, has there been new moral obligations imposed on the rotation in my absence? Well then uh, I think most of us are Christian, anti-camp checking, pro-gun, anti-surveillance and anti-rotation, but I can't speak for everyone...

Much debate was had over what a guild was or was not allowed to do with its dragons during its rotation kill period, with consequences if they left them up or not. I recall members of other guilds claiming they should be allowed to not kill their dragons on their rotation week if they so chose without any consequences. I can't seem to remember if those debates settled onto anything though. Other guilds disappeared (Divine Right) and I recall them simply being removed from the rotation.

And not that it matters, our leaving our dragons up wasn't intentional. It became more and more difficult as people experienced burnout to keep track of when naggy and vox were spawned, and when our deadline was to kill them, due to the stagnated zone repop cycle (because the GMs would repop the zones only after every 2nd week of the rotation cycle) and constant deadline-day changes (one week the deadline day is a Friday, the next its a Wednesday, etc). We just finally couldnt do it one week and that was that.

It's great to be back.

Adaephon

 

Welcome back SD! There may be some small sighs about spreading the dragon loot slightly thinner, but I think in the long run everybody's happy to see you guys return because we all want a stable (and high) server population. Yes, the dragon rotation is still going, but nothing in the planes has been rotated to date. I think everyone is enjoying the mix of schedule-able raids + being able to find stuff spawned and see if you can scrape up a force to defeat it. I'd expect a similar mix to carry forward into kunark, though I haven't been part of any discussions to that effect. It would probably make everything easier in a month or two if we've all spent a few minutes thinking about what to rotate and what to FFA come kunark. There has also been some discussion of changing the rotation to be 2-week blocks, which would better align with the server reset-forced spawns and letting your raid schedule not be impacted by other guilds'. Sounds like a good spot to throw in your 2cp if that's an issue that was negatively effecting your guild.

 

Ah, I was hoping to stay away from having to discuss & negotiate rotations on special forums this time around and just play by the existing rules, SD will happily go through whatever hoops was set for new guilds joining the rotation, or whatever the existing guilds wanted to decide on. I can't imagine its much more than just throwing us back on the end of the list of the existing cycle or next cycle, and/or some kind of test with a shortened kill window?

I still think it's silly to have a rotation on such a low populated server with many months between expansions (naggy/vox as exceptions established months ago due to lack of vanilla content & long spawn times) and if, going forward, greed & fear continue to be trumpeted as excuses for rotations on a low pop server, I would rather not have any part of those discussions and we'd just go with whatever the guilds involved and/or powers that be decide are the rules.

The first three or four guilds that killed dragons on this server all ended up disappearing for months+, leaving the later guilds to actually get more dragon kills. This is the natural way in EQ and I think this trend can be expected to continue with the expansion release cycle & the population #s being what they are. Greedy people who don't play much yet tout poopsocking on p99 as reasons for requiring a rotation on mobs they cannot even kill yet will hopefully not be listened to as much this time around.

Anyway not meaning to pick fights, just thought maybe someone needed to say something to jar people out of this rotation mindset on a server that has like 5 people on it when fun & spirited competition would actually draw in some players and revitalize the population.

Oh and I'll ask around for some officers and get back to you Speedz

 

haha, what was that a joke? Neither of those servers are nearly as close to classic EQ as TAKP is. p2002 does not have the same code base as TAKP. P99 and TAKP are the only 2 servers that try to stick to classic EQ.

I'm guessing others on the server don't share your "if you dont like our rules, F off" mindset, seeing as how someone else just expressed a desire for a healthy population here, thanks for being greedy player #75 to remind people who already know that playing here is a choice though.

 

My question wasn't regarding other guilds' actions or new moral obligations, but specifically your own previous comments and actions. That is, that they appear to suggest that you expect to receive a different level of respect and courtesy than you have given to others. In contrast, I think the recent communication and cooperation here has been excellent. If I misunderstood the situation, and you are coming back to contribute positively to the current raid guild atmosphere I couldn't be happier to have you guys back. However, if you're going to try to change the system or cooperation that is working amazingly, or shake up the server's philosophy, you may not get a particularly warm welcome. I wouldn't say "if you dont like our rules, F off", but I also wouldn't suggest coming and going as you please, without an ounce of respect, while expecting everyone to cater to you.

As thucydides pointed out, we are currently discussing new rotation options to prevent the exact issues that you experienced before you left, and it would be a good time to hash out a fair plan for new targets in the future. Your input is welcome.

I look forward to seeing you guys in game. Maybe there will be an opportunity to work together and take down new targets that none of us would be able to tackle alone.

Welcome back, Adaephon and the rest of SD.

 

I wouldn't expect a warm welcome from the greedy loot lusters that got their way as my criticism and skepticism is a direct threat to them. As I've stated before we're not here to change the rules and really we're just happy to jump through whatever hoops are necessary to get back into the dragon rotation to get another kill or 2 before ROK. If there's no hoops in place yet then we're fine waiting for some to form up from whoever it is that decides that stuff. I'm not expecting nor asking for any special courtesy, respect, privilege or haste in this process. I don't even want to participate in the discussion of it, just think of us as an entirely new guild maybe, asking if its possible to get on the rotation. And punish us for 'disappearing' if you see fit. I'm still going to be that small skeptical part of the community that reminds people that we're oppressing ourselves for silly reasons though (at the convenience of greedy selfish people too!), but now that I've done that I'll keep my mouth shut for awhile.

Glad to hear, we won't really have much input other than "rotations here are unnecessary and unnatural with obvious evidence already stated" since participating in rotation discussions and negotiations contributed to burnout in the first place but we're happy the issues are being addressed. It was indeed very silly that an early Vox or two had to rot simply because some greedy players wanted equal loot when they couldn't even complete the content. The only other input I have is that greedy people who don't play as often as other people will always push super hard for rotations for obvious reasons, of course there's a flip-side to that (greedy people with lots of playtime will stress the opposite) but the former should be given just as much weight as the latter.

Also my appreciation to those spending the hours negotiating this stuff, dunno how you can handle it all let alone the upkeep and maintenance of these rotations which are going to increase in the future it looks like.

Adaephon

 

You are suggesting that equitable sharing of the available experience is the same as greed for material wants. They are not the same. There are far more benefits at the end of a raid, win or lose, than the net weight of pixels you leave with. Your attitude reeks of your own pixel lust.

Your view of the way EQ ought to be played is not universal. If you are expecting to convince people here that rotations are bad and you are more deserving of the pixels because you can get there before them, I think you came to the wrong place. You'll have better luck pushing a rope up a hill. Not liking the quality of alternatives sounds like a you problem.

Dragons spawn once a week regardless of how fast you beat the next guild to them. At the end of the day if a few dragons rotted it isn't going to make a whole lot of difference but it should be avoided and I would think a courteous guild would make an effort to make sure the dragons go down if they know they aren't going to do it.

Rather than looking at rotations as a way for the less deserving, greedy casuals to steal the pixels you think you deserve more... consider that the community here is willing to share the opportunity to have those experiences at their expense. Try contributing more to the community here than your toxic attitude. I would say the rotation and discussions (I wouldn't call them negotiations) have gone flawlessly while you were away.

 

I guess I worded my posts pretty horribly and people could see it as me being the greedy person on the other end of the spectrum I spoke about. I'm actually not against rotations because I want more loot, I'm against rotations rotations because they suck the life out of the game. I held this stance when Starvald Demelain was a very small guild that people didn't even consider capable of entering planes let alone killing dragons, and other giants like Armed & Hammered & Fallout were still around and it hasn't changed. My only concern was making sure all of ROK wasn't auto-rotated right away, as in vanilla.

My disdain for rotations aside, the rotation policy here is quite lacking and anyone should be able to see that. I know its probably being discussed in the guild leaders forum or whatever like was said already, and we've had some officers who are less abrasive as I step up to volunteer who should be contributing soon, but I'll just link this post from earlier on here where a well oiled, mostly automated, self-sufficient rotation policy was suggested by someone else as a comparison to how sloppy and high maintenance the rotation here is. Note that this rotation policy, the rathe rotation policy I'll just call it, was widely ignored and flat out unaccepted by most people here and I'm not trying to 'push' it on the server again, just using it to illustrate a point.

http://www.takproject.net/forums/in...ial-raid-rotation-post.2665/page-2#post-13865

Adaephon