Poll 1 of 2 Devs are curious.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Speedz, May 9, 2017.

?

Type of server you want (client connectivity)

  1. Leave as is

  2. OSX only

  3. OSX but allow PC traders

  4. 2 servers, This one as is and another OSX only server.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. jcmtg

    jcmtg New Member

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    We understand each other now, i think.

    A poster was worried that others weren't concerned about spyware. I said I was concerned. You said you weren't. You are OK with spyware. That's it. Speculation on how it would/should/could be implemented and the trustworthiness of the source of it = a different discussion. Let's not have that discussion here in this thread.

    PC + Mac, TAKP 100 years forever.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  2. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    I don't worry about spyware.

    I'm on a mac.
     
  3. Fadetree

    Fadetree People Like Me

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    Works for me :) I guess I just thought it was clear from the context that we were talking about not actual spyware. Peace.
     
  4. Elrontaur

    Elrontaur People Like Me

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    The big difference is that newest macOS has its system files locked down and inaccessible to regular users and root is disabled. In other words, it has a real security model. People complain a lot about Apple's closed App Store system, but I've never downloaded a program from there and gotten virused. Good luck at the Google App Store.
     
    Bum likes this.
  5. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Hacking the Mac client has nothing to do with system files though and you could just sudo your way past any permission issues anyway.
     
  6. Elrontaur

    Elrontaur People Like Me

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    Oh the mac client is hackable, but the not macOS puter it's running on.
     
  7. Fadetree

    Fadetree People Like Me

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    Hmm, I don't think so, Elron. Most of the reason that Apple products didn't get hacked much is that they have very low penetration so it wasn't worth it. There's nothing more inherently secure about the permissions structure of OSX, it's just the standard *nix stuff as Lenas points out. In truth, there is no such thing as a secure computer. I mean, my Atari Falcon has never been hacked either, but its because nobody cares rather than inherent security.

    You are exactly correct about the app stores, though.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  8. Suriinya

    Suriinya Well-Known Member

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    I have a hard time buying the whole "security via obscurity" argument. If I were a hacker and knew of a target user base who demographically was on average more educated, financially more secure, and generally respond with hubris to breaches on other platforms ("I don't need antivirus, I'm on a Mac") then I would definitely target that platform.

    But that hasn't happened.
     
  9. Kagatob

    Kagatob People Like Me

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    Oh its certainly happened.
     
  10. Fadetree

    Fadetree People Like Me

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    Well, we are badly hijacking this thread, but anyway here's some reading on the subject:
    http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/ma...uses-do-macs-need-antivirus-software-3454926/
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7300423?start=0&tstart=0
    http://www.symantec.com/content/en/...sponse/whitepapers/apple-threat-landscape.pdf

    So, what do I get out of reading these?
    1. Is OS X more secure than windows? Yes, it is similar to unix/linux in it's level of difficulty for hackers and viruses.
    2. Is that just because it is less popular than Windows? Yes, partially this is true, but there are other factors as well. Criminals over the last 2 years have begun to turn their attention to Apple products, so the threat landscape is increasing rapidly for Apple products in general. This is also true of Linux/Unix.
    3. Do Apple product users need anti-malware/anti-virus? Yes. Safari in particular is a vector for attacks, mostly of the malware/adware variety.
    4. Have any really bad virus/ransomware attacks been seen on Apple products? Yes.

    So I was wrong, although not completely. Anything with an internet connection can be hacked if someone really knows how and has the desire, but it is true in general that the infection rate for Apple products is lower than for Microsoft products. The security community expects this to change over the next couple of years as more focus is put on Apple products by the criminal and governmental infection sources.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  11. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    With a nearly monthly security update to my Android phone and reading about the ever increasing Mac malware out there, sorry, I don't buy the whole Mac/Linux is inherently safer.

    Gotta love the fact that no one talks about a serious Linux kernel vulnerability that has been around since 2005 that was just recently discovered. Open source is safer? Only if the right people are looking at the code. That's an argument that needs to go away as well.

    In the end, it simply has to do with how much of a paycheck a malicious individual will get from said audience and how quickly they can capitalize on it. If Mac had 85% of the market instead of its 5%, malware writers wouldn't care at all about Windows. The malware systems are different enough that its a waste of time to port them from Windows to Mac/Linux. If you've downloaded Handbrake btw within the past week on Mac, you may want to look into that.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  12. Skogar

    Skogar New Member

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    I’m an immigrant!

    You guys have done a very nice job with this server. And I see 250 characters logged on the server more and more. If I may be allowed an old cliché: build it and they will come (I’m part of the “they”). In the last year I’ve played live and the P99 servers. I was playing on P99 Red due to population issues, but I just don’t need that much excitement. This is the best place to play the game in my opinion.

    I understand that the hacks and bad behaviors in general are correlated with the PC (users). But I suspect you guys know that there are plenty of Linux wizards out there too. The question is whether or not they are interested in causing problems here. I really don’t know, but it seems that two servers would greatly increase workload as well. And, as already pointed out, with success comes DDoS attacks…

    As for me, I have many, many more commitments and responsibilities than I did 20 years ago. I’ll probably never see another raid mob again, and that’s ok. I hope this server is around for a long time. And I hope you guys continue to support both clients, but if not, I’ll cross that bridge as necessary.
     
    Mokli likes this.
  13. jcmtg

    jcmtg New Member

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    Thanks for the immersion of being back in the 1990s. Mac vs PC malware debates. I'm a PC.
     
  14. Tuluvien

    Tuluvien People Like Me

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    Oh we go all out. "The year is 2002......"
     
  15. surron

    surron People Like Me

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    Lol you must be joking right? I'm not gonna link it but there's pretty nice eq automation software for mac AND the level 1 warper in PoTime was using the mac client... none of the pc hacks available to the public can /zone... let alone keep you in a flagged zone as lvl 1. That mac hack is linked publicly also.
     
    lurari likes this.
  16. Coldswede

    Coldswede New Member

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    Curses I say! Curses to all of you! I am so alarmed by this split server talk I ordered parts to build my first Hackentosh! :confused:

    It was that or build a new Ryzen rig! The Hackentosh is cheaper :)

    I'd volunteer to be a Guide but I am afraid (anti social that I am) I'd have to figure out how to delete accounts in short order.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  17. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    Surron is obviously an old age soldier.
     
  18. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    And easier. The two reasons I went Intel a couple of years ago was its much easier to make into a Hackentosh. Plus, EQ has always been a CPU heavy game and the raw Intel CPU cycles vs AMD at the time per core were just much higher. I'm glad AMD is finally on the upswing again though. Really like them as a company.
     
  19. Faults

    Faults I Feel Loved

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    This is so funny for so many reasons.
     
  20. surron

    surron People Like Me

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    i have nothing to do with that and i think its a shame of whats come of it
     
  21. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    #WhatstheFaite
     
  22. Roysan

    Roysan Member

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    I voted for OSX client... I run on PC, I would just go get a cheap Mac mini, if server has such restrictions.
     
    Tuluvien likes this.
  23. Wilshire

    Wilshire New Member

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    Hacking/cheating undermines the legitimacy of the entire server, it is refreshing to see the opinions of so many be so against it in this thread. I was waiting for a Captain 'Murica vs Iron Man argument to break out.

    Aneways I'm are way to dum too hack aneways.
     
  24. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    RL pic of @Ablazze , he's obviously a captain murica fan

    [​IMG]
     
    Ablazze likes this.
  25. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    What I love the most about these types of polls is its one of the best measures of the number of people actively playing on the server. Its right around where I thought it would be actually.