The vast majority of my hate mechanics research was done in early summer of 2015. I'm not going to do what you want just because you add the words 'I challenge you to' in front. It makes little sense to me to somehow make summoned pets prevent sit aggro but not PC tanks. Even if I had wanted to do something here, I wouldn't even know how to do it because I would just end up breaking something else. Requiring convoluted logic to do something suggests that it's wrong.
i don't have a lot of clear memories from my live eq days in the early 2000s but standing on inc and waiting till X% to sit is one of em
Hi Torven, That is completely understandable. I’m sure the amount of time that has gone by has caused all our memories to fill in some false blanks. I saw your detailed post on aggro and hate generation on the EQEmu forums so the current sitting aggro functionality on TAKP seems sound. My memories (and other’s) just seem to conflict in my head. As I mentioned previously, I don’t have any hard data to back it so it is a moot point. Also I’m sure it probably had something to do with the mob max HP / sitting aggro curve you’ve outlined in your old post. Thanks for your prior and continued hard work in making TAKP great! Cheers!
Torven, I challenge you to continue making changes to pets since they are obviously "broken" Hearts, Everyone on server
I wanted to chime in on this. I've seen the same thing where my necro is sitting and a tank engages a mob and even if I let him knock 5% of the mobs health off and send my pet, the mob beelines for me. It wasn't this way ever when I played in live. The truth is.. I just plan accordingly now. My pet's taunt is off. The tank was 60 at the time and I was 54 using level 49 pet. I'm totally not complaining here, but sharing my experience.
As a necro player in the past as one of my primaries I am necroing this thread. I am very certain that current live mechanics have nothing to do with what AK was. But as Torven says, unless DB releases a server based on AK code proof is likely impossible. That said, a majority of our collective AK experience is from PoP. I suspect we'll be more able to gauge this issue once PoPs drops. Mostly because the behaviors of PoP mobs tended to be different than old school mobs if I recall correctly. I know it gets to ya Torven when people argue about mechanics, but this is how we make the server right. Side note, I do remember even on AK casters were recommended to stand most of the time on pet sending. Especially on raids IF one was allowed to use a pet. Raids and pets on AK were not always the best thing to do. I also distinctly remember PoJ for instance, sitting casters, if they casted or not, would always get a rat or 5 on their ars.
It will become more noticable to people when PoStorms is released. Everyone charmed those frogs and used them as tanks. PoN may be a good one too since many used to charm kite those ravens. That's where I lived for a while.
I disagree with that last sentence. Everquest pet aggro being convoluted is exactly what I remember when I started playing EQ in late 2001/early 2002 when I was gifted an account with a lvl 53 mage already on it. As always I'm hazy on the details this many years later. But I remember mage air pets casting invis on themselves so they wouldn't aggro mobs themselves like the other pets did. I remember EQ changing the pet aggro code to prevent non-invis mage pets from aggroing mobs. I remember pet pulling. I remember EQ changing the pet aggro code to prevent that too, although I might have already stopped playing by then. I honestly would expect the pet aggro code in the original EQ to be some weird forked version of the player aggro code that duplicated a lot of the same functionality but the two separate aggro systems (player and pet) didn't share any actual common code. Or something inefficient and convoluted like that anyway.
And the most awesome thing? We have neither the original aggro code or a detailed description of the functionality. We should have this fixed up ASAP with all these new resources on hand. Thanks
Lot's of players think it's not quite right. Me included. I am not even a little bit concerned that the dev team won't get it as accurate as the available information will allow before the project is deemed complete.
A year ago I ran hate parses on pets to measure their hate generation. (I think because of this thread) If I make pets do any more hate they'll start preventing raid bosses from summoning people. As I recall, pet hate right now puts pets half way down the list or so on raid bosses. Also some people (necros) actually don't want their pets to aggro when they are kiting with DoTs and that was AK behavior. No matter what I do with it it's going to cause problems. The current logic we have is my best stab at it even though it's not accurate. I simply don't know how to make it more accurate than it is. Trust me, I don't have anything against pet users. If I had a Sony server to work with I'd take the time to figure it out, but I don't. As for memories... Awhile ago I had people swearing to me up and down that Jaled`Dar was up 100% on the time on AK. From people I deem highly reliable. So many of you that I just took your words for it. Later stumbled upon log proof otherwise and went digging and found plenty more proof. That is not a subtle game mechanic either. Memories suck. I'm not saying that you're wrong in the case of pet aggro, that's still unresolved as far as I'm concerned, but I'm gonna need more than that when serious issues are caused by adjusting it. Sorry.
Just checked my TAKP live server log. Hate lists look like this: [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] You say, '#hatelist' [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] Display hate list for Thall_Va_Kelun000.. [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Warrior), timer: 1, damage: 18582, hate: 68592 (+2285) [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Warrior), timer: 27, damage: 39351, hate: 67267 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Wizard), timer: 6, damage: 64678, hate: 59439 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Warrior), timer: 0, damage: 30883, hate: 58352 (+2250) [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Rogue), timer: 0, damage: 53381, hate: 53587 (+2250) [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Druid), timer: 6, damage: 55911, hate: 53114 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Rogue), timer: 0, damage: 74280, hate: 52189 (+2250) [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Wizard), timer: 8, damage: 77784, hate: 50639 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Wizard), timer: 7, damage: 59754, hate: 48865 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Shaman), timer: 5, damage: 27456, hate: 47643 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Magician), timer: 4, damage: 51431, hate: 47150 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Wizard), timer: 4, damage: 95811, hate: 46441 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Monk), timer: 0, damage: 53977, hate: 46422 (+2250) [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Wizard), timer: 15, damage: 49729, hate: 45220 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Wizard), timer: 1, damage: 46991, hate: 43750 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: _ (Wizard), timer: 60, damage: 47580, hate: 43696 [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: Xorik (Warrior), timer: 1, damage: 33312, hate: 43663 (+2250) [Thu Nov 29 19:29:59 2018] - name: Gibab000 (Warrior), timer: 1, damage: 30683, hate: 43504 (+2250) If I granted pets a mere 25% more hate gen, then virtually no DPS would be summonable here. And this was Temerity so ya'all super geared. (granted that's one year old, I haven't been checking raid hatelists in awhile) Pets are doing 2/3rds the hate of main tanks currently.
While I was writing my post I did some quick googling to see when exactly the pet pulling nerf happened (and I'm pretty sure I'd quit by then, but I don't 100% trust my memory) and I found quotes attributed to the EQ dev responsible. The dev described a few changes they had made to the "cry for help system" that had pretty widespread and diverse underlying causes. Aka convoluted ad hoc fixes piled on top of convoluted kludges. Or that's the impression I've always had of how Classic EQ was coded way back when everything was still working exactly as originally "intended". My post was intended as a mix of sympathy and gratitude for you TAKP devs because afaik there's still nobody doing close to the good work y'all do.
I also noticed this mechanic when I first started playing here. It was quite jarring, as I never remembered getting sitting aggro on AK. I think it may have to do with this explanation by Rashere on how pet pulling worked. It sounds like the owner was not checked for pets when a pet was first sent to attack. "This particular bit of code is there for NPC vs NPC combat to keep NPCs from ganging up on each other, but the missing check for a PC leader caused it to not call for help if a PC sent a green con pet to aggro it." I've stated in other threads that I'm sure that simply sending a pet to attack did not cause a faction hit in most cases. I think the explanation from Rashere on pet pulling might also explain why that was the case. My interpretation is that using a pet exclusively would follow the NPC vs NPC routine. This would then not check for pet owners, so a sitting owner would not be immediately jumped if they hadn't done anything else to grab aggro. I don't know if this is possible to change without reinstating pet pulling. But if we are being Akkurate, pet pulling didn't get nerfed until the second half of 2006 anyway.
