New player, first time boxing

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kabouter, Jul 18, 2020.

  1. Kabouter

    Kabouter New Member

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    Hi guys, I've played a couple of years EQ live from kunark till Luclin. Recently I've played a bit on P1999 green and while I've had a good time, it was slow and everyone seemed to be in a race to get to 50. Most spots were camped and the grouping wasn't that much fun for me (everyone else seemed to know every pixel of Norrath (locations, respawn times, type of npc's, etc...).

    However when I read up on boxing it actually sounds like fun and would allow me to solo and dungeon crawl with less downtime. Just wanting some advice and please correct me if I'm wrong since I've never played more than 1 character at a time.

    So I loved playing the enchanter on p1999, but it is hard without the pet window, no target cycling and pets taking 50% of exp. I guess on TAKP there is a pet window and target cycling and on top of that since I would always be in a group I don't have to worry about my pet taking 50% exp?

    My group would be:

    Enchanter - main character, doing the charming and pulling. Basically the way I would solo, but not killing off my pet when he gets low on health.
    Cleric - Heals, buffs, rezzes. Can keep the enchanter pet alive. I think this is pretty straightforward
    Mage - Never played one but seems easy enough and the mage's pet would, especially in the beginning till the enchanter's charm gets viable, make it easier for the group to level

    Does this sound like a good option for a first time 3boxer? I've read others using a melee character instead of the mage, but I assume they require way more attention and that way I don't think I'd be able to juggle charming and mezzes with the enchanter. I thought of making them all gnomes or should I at least make a dark elf cleric for the snare necklace (could help the enchanter with his charms I guess)?

    Some other questions I have regarding TAKP:
    - Does charisma affect charm like on p1999?
    - Is it easy to get platinum starting out (things like bone chips, crushbone belts still in demand?)
    - I can use the books to get around norrath right? If not perhaps swapping the mage with a wizard or druid would be better
     
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  2. Tuluvien

    Tuluvien People Like Me

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    That trio is certainly viable, especially at higher levels. I don't have a lot of enchanter experience so I won't delve farther into that, other than that I believe as long as you or someone in your group deals any damage to the mobs before they die, the pet won't effect your exp gain.

    The PoP books are here and extremely useful. Ports are handy but you can get around nicely without.

    Your best bet for PP starting out will be identifying and farming the trade skill components needed by others. Usually things like spider/spiderling silk. As well, you will find a lot of lower level items given away and you ought to be able to get some decent gear within a relatively short time.
     
  3. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Welcome :)

    Enc/clr/mag sounds like a great trio for your goals. It can do a lot with relatively few actions per minute: focus on the chanter; flip to the mage once per fight to hit an "assist, sic pet, nuke" hotkey; flip to the clr once in a while to heal a pet. It's self-sufficient, so good for long dungeon crawls. As a bonus for a new player, it's not too gear dependent and it's great at farming.

    TAKP does have pet windows.

    As long as you do one point of damage to each mob, e.g. via a mage nuke or this enc clicky, your charmed pet won't steal any exp.

    Charisma doesn't affect charm breaks on TAKP. The determining factors are the pet's magic resist (so tash and malosi the pet) and the level difference between you and the pet.

    Bone chips and crushbone belts don't sell very well here, but tradeskill materials do. Spider and spiderling silks will always sell well at 5p each (100p per stack). Consider leveling on spiders in Upper Guk (which has a great ZEM anyway) from 10-25ish. In the 40s, you can charm a buzzsaw undercon named Ryklo Rikes in Dawnshroud Peaks and shred rockhoppers. Their flawless hides sell like hotcakes to tailors at 250p each (5k per stack).

    The PoK books provide pretty easy travel around Norrath. Ports are still handy, but I think mage is a better fit than wizard for your goals.

    You can buy 10-slot bags from Nelin Signus in PoK (#7 in black on this map) for 1p each.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  4. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    I started off ench/clr/mag but needed a little more, felt a little boring just doing spells all the time on my guys, so switched ranger for mage around level 10. But if it's your thing then go for it, definitely can't go wrong with ench/clr.
     
  5. Kithani

    Kithani New Member

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    The biggest thing for boxing is to make sure you learn how the hotkey program works for switching and you get your setup working for you. Even if it seems like it is just an efficiency thing it can make the game more FUN to play which is the whole point in the end!

    For example, I am left handled IRL and prefer to have my box swap buttons as Alt + A/S/D and it was a massive improvement in fun when I figured that out.

    Another is setting up good hotkeys on your characters. I started out with a Paladin team and it was another massive leap when I made one hotkey that would cast all of his stuns (with appropriate /pause lines) so I could got that once per mob and then focus on the other toons rather than swapping around and manually casting stuns.

    Another option for you to start out would be to do something like Enc/Bard/Healer, which might be (debatably) less powerful overall but if you have Bard /autofollow Enc with mez song playing constantly and the charm pet targeted it will automez on charm break which might be a good “training wheels” setup until you get the hang of things.

    TL,DR: We don’t have mousewheel scroll, thanks for stopping by!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  6. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Everyone else has touched on most of the important things. For a first time boxer I would advise creating some very straight forward but repetitive hotkeys. This will allow you to pay less attention to your boxes and still get a decent amount out of them. As you get more comfortable with boxing and flipping between accounts, you may rely less on these hotkeys instead opting to do each action after swapping to a different character.

    Cleric:

    /stand
    /pause 40, /cast 1 (Heal)
    /pause 40, /cast 1 (Heal)
    /pause 40, /cast 1 (Heal)
    /book

    Fill in the pause and cast slot based on the level and heal you are using. Once you get to 39 and can complete heal you can just remove the pauses in lines 3/4 for redundancy/fizzle resistance.

    Enchanter:

    /stand
    /pause 30, /cast 1 (Tash)
    /pause 50, /cast 2 (Slow)
    /book

    Magician:

    /assist Enchanter
    /pet attack

    /stand
    /pause 2, /assist Enchanter
    /pause 50, /cast 2 (Malo)
    /book

    /stand
    /pause 50, /cast 1 (Nuke)
    /pause 50, /cast 1 (Nuke)
    /pause 50, /cast 1 (Nuke)
    /book
     
  7. Kabouter

    Kabouter New Member

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    Thanks a lot for all the advice guys! Definitely a lot of work will be placed into making hotkeys for heals/buffs/etc... And gear/making money won't be hard it seems especially if i only have casters.

    So the way I see it, the mage and cleric won't have to do too much, most of the work will be done by the enchanter. Hasted charmed pet, perhaps with the dmg shield from the mage will tear through other npc's, of course with the help from the mage's pet. I found soloing on an enchanter stressful enough, so I doubt changing the mage for a melee character will bring me more enjoyment :D. But who knows down the line.

    Only thing I was thinking after going through the spell list is swapping the cleric for a druid, since I see they get a (in)complete heal as well at later levels and it would bring a lot of utility especially in the earlier levels (sow, ports, snare) and add a bit more fun than the cleric (in the end that is what it is all about right).

    The suggestion for the bard mezzing all the time sounds ok, but also boring and wouldn't help that much with leveling (making it slower but easier). My main back in the day was a bard and I loved the versatility of the class, but can't imagine playing one in a 3box scenario.

    So just to get it straight: charisma doesn't matter at all for charm? Before I put all my points into charisma at character creation.

    Oh and I read about boxing software: is it allowed to use software that broadcasts keys across clients? So for example if I press numpad1 it would be pressed across all characters?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  8. Tuluvien

    Tuluvien People Like Me

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    You may only input commands to the window that is frontmost. To send commands to windows that aren't currently being displayed would be an egregious breach of the rules. You've got to actually play each character. They are watching always and will fiiiiind you if you do.
     
  9. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Hotkeynet is the main software people are referring to for PC players. Basically it lets you set a hotkey to switch to a specific window. You cannot send keys to background windows here.

    I think mine are set to Left CTRL + #, where # is the instance of EQ. I load in my Druid1/Paladin2/Enchanter3. Then I can press Left CTRL+3 to immediately bring my enchanter to the front process and start moving or casting on him.

    So having played a Druid on AK for about 2 years and TAKP for 5 years now? I would advise a cleric over a druid for your Enchanter/Mage trio.

    While yes, SoW and eventually SoE are very convenient, as is Ensnare Evac and port. The Druid CH does not keep up a charmed pet very effectively especially come PoP. In Velious and Luclin at 58+ it will be fine. But you are also lacking rez if you pick druid over cleric. Though many people are nice on this server you are not likely to find someone available to come out to some obscure zone like Kedge Keep or Plane of Hate to rez you when you need it.

    Cleric offers rez which is invaluable to have at your disposal. Also the 55 Stun Command spell is an amazing tool to help handle charm breaks, similar to the Ensnare druids offer. With an all caster trio you can rely on gate to get you out of most spots so porting isn’t as valuable.

    However if druid sounds more fun, go for it. I would still suggest powerleveling a cleric after leveling your primary trio and swapping in cleric to see how it feels versus Druid. You are likely able to do this before PoP launches and compare for yourself the difference between the two. Plus having a pocket cleric is invaluable for silly wipes and wanting symbols or spell hastes for tough fights.
     
  10. Kabouter

    Kabouter New Member

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    Ok thanks a lot for the thorough explanation! You convinced me a cleric is the better choice, have never played one so that class along with the mage will be both new.

    Something could be said as well about starting with a druid first and powerleveling a cleric later, not sure how long that would take though.

    And @Tuluvien, I understand it is just something that I read in a boxing tutorial, but no problem I'm sure I'll manage without those hacks :).
     
  11. Tuluvien

    Tuluvien People Like Me

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    Oh for sure you will. In my mind they would strip away fun anyway. I don't want to automate an MMO, I want to play a game.
     
  12. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    I always hated the double click window switching. As in hitting alt with thumb and then a number. There is a guy that wrote script for mouse wheel switching with hotkeynet and for mac you can tweak controls in system preferences and use F1 f2 etc to switch
     
  13. Tuluvien

    Tuluvien People Like Me

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    On my MacBook I use CMD or Alt + numbers. The other of either CMD or Alt + numbers are spell gems so it's got kind of a nice symmetry in my head, I just change my thumb between the two keys while toggling toons and casting spells
     
  14. Kabouter

    Kabouter New Member

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    I finally installed bootcamp today. Server looks good so far, no issues yet.
    But regarding switching screens with the mouse wheel, before that happens I'll have to stop trying to scroll to zoom out to 3rd person. Wish that option was in this client, but I'm sure there is a good reason for it not being there (immersion or something).
    Going to level up my 3 characters separately to level 4 and then bring them together and try out this boxing thing. Thanks for the help guys, see you ingame!
     
  15. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    It's not an immersion thing, you can already third-person cam various ways by hitting F9. It's more of an era-accurate and client parity decision. From what I understand, the Windows client could probably enable something like this through a .dll modification, but we have no way to change or update the Mac client.
     
  16. solar

    solar People Like Me Staff Member

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    This ship has sailed and new games do provide this third person thing and UI mods that show some players hidden info for an advantage over other players, but there's something special about everyone using the same tunnel vision interface and being on even ground.

    The third person zoomed out view provides more information more easily, kind of like the boss timers with UI mods (commonly used on WoW). Though, even here, people are doing that with log parsers, so short of having a ref going around making sure nobody is getting an advantage with extra tools, it's pretty hard to make that even immersion and so games simply include these easier interfaces now and designers have to find another way to make the game hard. Back in the original EQ era they thought they could enforce this and they used to scan people's computers and record the list of running programs to make sure they weren't running something like that so that everybody was equally blind.
     
  17. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    I miss the scroll wheel sometimes, but I still use third-person view a lot. I like that TAKP's third-person view lets you pan the camera around (right-click, hold, and move the mouse around) and zoom in and out easily. I use almost exclusively third-person while I'm tanking or mezzing a big pack of mobs. I find it allows for much easier targeting, especially when combined with the "Target Nearest NPC" key.

    I suggest remapping Options > Keyboard > Camera >"Toggle camera view" and Options > Keyboard > Target > "Target Nearest NPC" to keys that are convenient for you. I use a mouse button to toggle camera view and "F" to target nearest NPC (which is convenient with my WSAD movement habit).
     
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  18. Mascha

    Mascha Well-Known Member

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    I was not happy with Hotkey for switching between EQ windows, I got too many bugs playing for a few hours, so I went with DexPot, and I am very happy with it.

    https://dexpot.de/

    Free for private users, and does what it is supposed to do. I am not affliated with them in any way.
     
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  19. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    Yea exactly, clicking the camera button 3 times summons a drone that will circle and go in and out as you please. It's what I use most of the time.
     
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  20. Mukk

    Mukk Member

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    I didn't even realize you could map the camera toggle to a button... That is super handy. I use my little arrow keys for movement with my right hand (and moves to mouse when needed), and my left hand does everything else basically. (bard is main so twisting, switching toons, spellcasting, hotkeys, etc) I already have my "Target nearest NPC" mapped to W, and "Target nearest PC" mapped to E. Putting the camera view toggle on Q (is that used for anything by default?) could be fantastic...
     
  21. Mukk

    Mukk Member

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    How does this play out?

    I've always written my spell hotkeys to account for fizzles like this:
    /sit off
    /cast 1
    /cast 1
    /cast 1
    /pause 40
    /sit on

    Could I be doing it better?
     
  22. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Regarding charisma and charm: charisma is supposed to factor in when the spell lands, not on tick save throws. We don't have that in but it should be there. (as far as I know) One reason it's not in is because I'm not sure how it should work exactly. I think it's just a small bonus to allow the spell to land, like a tiny MR debuff. But typically everybody has the NPC debuffed anyway or it's low enough level that it wouldn't matter.
     
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  23. Kabouter

    Kabouter New Member

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    Yeah I do understand since it is quite a bit more difficult if you can't see whether you are being creeped up on from behind (or attacked even). Needs some getting used to, luckily I don't play a melee class because I would have to look at a shaky 1st person view every time I'm in combat.

    Thanks that is exactly what I've done now :).

    Ok so charisma can be completely bypassed then for my enchanter? Just asking because on p1999 it was the most important stat for charming.
     
  24. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Yes, as far as I'm aware P99 is wrong in this regard and it should not affect tick saves at all
     
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  25. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Charisma does have some uses for chanters. It's not important for charming, but it helps mezzes land, reduces the chances of getting aggro on a critical pac resist, and increases the chances of mem-blurs working.
     
  26. Kabouter

    Kabouter New Member

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    Thanks Pithy, I think since most enchanter gear has a ton of charisma I should be good there, but for character creation focus on INT instead.
     
  27. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    A little extra INT never hurt anybody in the early game, but it's worth pointing out that it's the stat you'll probably cap first just with gear. STA, on the other hand ...
     
  28. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Stamina is generally speaking a good initial stat for mid-late game characters.

    Ultra-late game (VT-Time geared) the only stat you generally won't cap out on is Charisma or Strength for Enchanter. So picking Charisma really isn't the worst idea in the world.
     
  29. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    I think charisma is a high end warrior thing
     
  30. Kabouter

    Kabouter New Member

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    Ok I highly doubt I'll ever get to the ultra-late game. My plan now is to just dungeon crawl all the old world dungeons with my trio and enjoy parts of the game that I haven't seen during live (where I was mostly charm kiting outside with my bard).

    So for now this might be best for a gnome enchanter (10INT, 10STA, 10STR). Will help a bit in the beginning to be able to carry more without immediately being encumbered.

    Anyways thanks again for all the help. I've leveled my cleric up to 5. Will start with the enchanter and mage now and do those newbie armor quests (which I can't remember ever being in the game :D).