Light blue experience change

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sowislifesowislove, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    Created this thread so that others can post with the recent change to light blue experience. I definitely noticed a decrease, guess others won't unless they exp on light blues as well. But maybe some have anecdotes from AK? I always heard light blue exp was good for rangers in PoP with headshot aa, dunno if that was a thing on AK.
     
  2. Devour_Souls

    Devour_Souls Well-Known Member

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    Light blue mobs gave next to nothing on AK.
     
  3. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Yeah, light blue experience has always been a lot better on TAKP than it was on AK.
     
  4. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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  5. Cazar

    Cazar Active Member

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    definitely noticed a major change in light blue exp after this patch. The same AE gives about 35-50% what it used to give pre-patch.
     
  6. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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    ugh great...
    Is this exp nerf Nukem's fault again? I'm guessing it's in response to something Nukem did
     
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  7. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    I guess it just stinks because it lowers overall xp gain. Its not like you can hop over to a PoP zone and xp like you could on AK. So, for those still leveling that didn't benefit from years of better xp from LB's (for areas with mixed LB/DB's) like the rest of us, its a steeper curve. XP past lvl 55 is just horrible until PoP comes out. None of us would be in the zones we currently are when PoP comes out if we need xp.
     
  8. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    ???
     
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  9. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Where were people AEing bunches of Light Blue mobs? Wherever that was, is likely your answer for what brought this up. But I will echo what was said above, light blues gave almost no EXP on AK.
     
  10. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    Nukem! Stop finding new innovative ways to xp! Not cool man! :p
     
  11. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    Dunno if you have xp much on light blues or the others that mentioned this. But there was a nerf in 2017 when nobles and Tolin were very hot. Have you since tried? In your opinion was it still too much?
     
  12. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    Maybe the infinite spawn got this latest nerf going? So 40+ (I forget how many pop in one setting) light blues at 53 and 54 gave 1-2% xp in a 2 man group. Is that too much? I wouldn’t think so. But I don’t have the AK reference to go off of. I don’t know what the below really means.
     
  13. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    I remeber Stay at 51 to farm aa at the infinite spawn on AK
     
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  14. Cerberus

    Cerberus Active Member

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    Wow this is a bad decision to Nerf light blue experience now your limiting where player base will be going to play outer ac no point only inner ac only vilable and that's just one of many places player will no longer use. But I am surely wrong maybe player's will still kill light blues
     
  15. Haynar

    Haynar Administrator Staff Member

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    You dont even play here.

    And its a work in progress. And lb exp needed adjustment.
     
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  16. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    this seems like it would have been the most popular light blue camp. @Ravenwing @Devour_Souls @Darchon have any experience with this camp from AK?
     
  17. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    I farmed acrylia there on AK and powerleveled several alts there, usually stopping PL there in the high 40s.

    Looking at my logs it looks like 550~ kills from 46-47 in Grimling Forest in a group of 4.
     
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  18. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    I PL'd alts at the infinite grimlings on AK. I used to move to the Mavuin hall in PoJ around 49 or 50, when the grimlings slowed way down. Then PoV golems at 55 and Tactics at 60.
     
  19. sowislifesowislove

    sowislifesowislove People Like Me

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    hmmm, yea. On AK guess there were shit load more options. I wonder when people say “light blues gave very little” it was compared the insanely good options elsewhere
     
  20. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    I don't recall the PoJ Mavuin hall as a great exp spot, but more of a bridge until PoV became available at 55 due to AK's custom level-based zone access rules. PoV was also a slog compared to 1-50, but things picked back up at 60 when Tactics opened up, with its higher level mobs and better charm pets. That was my experience, anyway! I'm sure other folks PL'd alts in other ways.
     
  21. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Looking through logs for a few alts on AK, I was almost always bailing on Grimling Infinity spawn at 46-47.

    I also happened to find this interaction in my logs when I was farming acrylia for tailoring/tinkering.

    [Sat Jun 29 08:23:51 2013] You tell alliance:1, 'any level 30ish person want to get powerleveled while doing me a favor, caster ideally!'
    [Sat Jun 29 08:24:03 2013] You tell alliance:1, 'well druid/wiz would be ideal*'

    [Sat Jun 29 09:02:35 2013] Ampefy tells the group, 'ok just organizing my bags. i didnt realize what i got myself into.'
    [Sat Jun 29 12:16:48 2013] Ampefy tells the group, 'thanks!'
    [Sat Jun 29 12:17:07 2013] Ampefy tells the group, '10 lvls ha!'
    [Sat Jun 29 12:22:48 2013] Ampefy tells the group, 'i have a few more pieces for your mule.'
    [Sat Jun 29 12:23:54 2013] Ampefy tells the group, 'alright. thanks a lot. didn't expect it to be hat good of xp.'

    [Sat Jun 29 08:55:45 2013] [39 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 09:00:59 2013] [40 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 10:01:35 2013] [43 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 10:19:42 2013] [44 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 11:02:42 2013] [45 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 11:26:00 2013] [46 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 11:36:27 2013] [47 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 12:08:08 2013] [48 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)
    [Sat Jun 29 12:16:39 2013] [49 Bard] Ampefy (Half Elf)

    (Mage logs)

    [Sat Jun 29 08:54:01 2013] Ampefy has joined the group.
    [Sat Jun 29 08:55:29 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 35!
    [Sat Jun 29 09:01:00 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 36!
    [Sat Jun 29 09:12:22 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 37!
    [Sat Jun 29 09:36:44 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 38!
    [Sat Jun 29 09:56:28 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 39!
    [Sat Jun 29 10:00:44 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 40!
    [Sat Jun 29 10:27:13 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 41!
    [Sat Jun 29 10:49:37 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 42!
    [Sat Jun 29 11:15:13 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 43!
    [Sat Jun 29 11:26:54 2013] a grimling miner scowls at you, ready to attack -- he appears to be quite formidable.
    [Sat Jun 29 11:32:12 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 44!
    [Sat Jun 29 11:41:33 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 45!
    [Sat Jun 29 12:08:04 2013] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 46!

    Over that 3 hour span I have 1340 Party EXP messages from farming Grimlings. For a group of 35 Mage + 39 Bard to grind to be 46 Mage + 49 Bard. Going from 45 to 46 took 132 party EXP messages.

    Now its possible I always left because yes Planar zones were more attractive, but I absolutely loathed the 50-60 grind on alts on AK due to it feeling like it would take them forever even with powerleveling outside of shakerpaging. If grimling had been viable beyond the 40s I definitely would've powerleveled there.

    All the references I see to light blue mobs in my logs are either "my camp is light blue where should I move to" or "where can I find light blue mobs/pets to skill up an alt".
     
  22. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    didn't infinite spawn have more mobs on AK or am I misremembering
     
  23. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    I remember experimenting with AE grimlings at level 51 on AK when I was looking for a good place to grind AA points for the Naggy-Vox bot I spent aeons camping gear and AAs for and never actually got around to actually using.

    It was completely unviable, and I went to PoJ, which was still not that good. If it had been remotely worthwhile at level 51, I'd probably have stayed even if grimlings were slower than WotW or charm exp because it was so low-effort and laziness is the lodestar that guides my entire life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  24. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Experience calculations still need work. It's a very difficult problem that might never have a good solution because EQ hid so much of it. I got exp from kills (at least for AAs) from level 58+ NPCs looking very good but under that it gets murky. The Level 1-50 game is probably OK because the Luclin junk they added applies mostly to 51+ characters. I have a lot of PoP kill data on higher level stuff (e.g. Zamiel's stuff) so that's working well. Logs don't say how much exp is applied to AAs, so even tediously accounting for every single kill between AA points or levels is unreliable resulting in little data to work with.

    Velious era exp is well understood, but in Luclin they added two (possibly three) new multipliers: a hell level multiplier to smooth out hell level exp (which we lack), a high level kill bonus and possibly (unsure if this exists; it did for 2 days in Sept 2002 at least) a low level kill penalty for dark blues. Plus god knows what else they did. On top of everything else Sony started hiding exp from packet sniffers in Luclin, so what is known since is incomplete.

    Now consider that the bonus multiplier alone must be computed from level difference, is non-linear, is capped at certain level ranges etc. That's one multiplier.

    Basically figuring this out requires a lot of hard data and the data points I have for low to mid con dark blues is countable on one hand and they contradict each other. Actually the high level data for level 60 killers is also very thin.

    I can say this though: the experience you guys are getting from Fungus Grove is significantly higher than it should be. I'm talking DARK blues here. That is the one place I have a ton of data on. The number of kills from the caller caves required for an AA point should be around 278ish in a 5x60 group, or 334ish in a 6x60 group. Doing dregs+bandits+mushrooms was a tiny bit more kills. I can't say exactly why else I'd have fixed it by now.

    On the other hand, I added up exp from an AA point in Plane of Disease at level 60 killing level 46-54 stuff from my log and our current model is underestimating the exp gain there. (not by a lot, but noticeably) Needless to say it's a headache trying to figure this out without a sever to experiment on.

    I'm not even certain how much exp an AA point should be. Apparently they calculated AA exp differently which makes the puzzle even larger. We're currently using slightly under 24 million exp because some old dev comment said 'about level 51-52' for an AA point and we're doing the standard moblevel*moblevel*ZEM stuff. I just found some old threads indicating that AAs might have been 15m but the exp calc was different, so even trying to apply that stuff to our situation requires some translation if it's even correct.

    I guess what I'm saying is, don't be too mad light blue exp is nerfed and more changes are possible. I guess Rob wanted to see if anybody would notice since it took 2 years for somebody to tell us that it might be a problem
     
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  25. Walex

    Walex People Like Me

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    As always, thank you for the in-depth response, torven. Every time you do this you renew my faith in the accuracy of this project.
     
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  26. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    .... that sounds Even more Challenging the average data mining dudes at a big tech company.. This most certain sounds like a full scale project of a team of 3 to 4 data sciencest of a years work.. Now looking at the limited data we have .. So agreed thanks for being very pedantisk about your work.
     
  27. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    Echoing the above responses. Thank you Torven for that response and the work you and the other devs continue to do here. Its truly amazing.
     
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  28. Cerberus

    Cerberus Active Member

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    Ouch that hurts but so true I guess I should just keep my opinions to myself but .....
    Opinions are just like assholes everyone has one and nothing but shit comes out of them.
    Also psss Haynar I would come back but you need to hook me up with a fable sword of truth !!!! So I can have a one of a kind look because you know I am one of a kind ...... Unfortunately the wrong type one of a kind. I'm sure you and the team will get everything just right and keep up the great work do not let trolls like me bother you.
    Takp the social game while you social distancing stay safe everyone
     
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  29. Tyrion

    Tyrion Active Member

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    Come back and corner the market on ogre cultural smithing!
     
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  30. Verdent

    Verdent Well-Known Member

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    I believe people said light blues were good on AK to PL on if:
    OOR XP
    Easy fast kills

    If i'm getting a 200%+ bonus because I have 4 level 1's in the zone in group at grimling infiinity spawn it's a bit better xp for my 1 or 2 I want XP on.

    Bring back OOR XP. It's not even more XP it's just concentrated.