You're going to have problems keeping agro, stopping mobs from running, crowd control... Seen it all happen with other monk based trios. I'd reconsider at least a proper tank or a proper CC.
I loved monk/shaman duo, so really anything you add in the 3rd slot should work. The down side is with cleric you'd be playing 2 casters with no solid mana regen or snares (root works though). If you swapped enc in for cleric, lower levels might be kind of tough because shaman heals are lacking, but mend kind of makes up for that a little.
I will have the snare necklace on the DE Cleric. But yeah snare is for sure a concern of mine, also a lack of CC. My initial plan was do do a Mage/Ench/Druid but I wasn't sure how that trio would play out. I also really think a rez is a nice tool to have. I've never been so torn on a decision for which trio to start. What I really want is a trio that can handle farming items for all my toons. How reliable is charming on this server?
You can be completely self-sufficient up through 60 and probably beyond with SK, Enc, Cleric. Start strong to establish yourself here. If you wanna try some crazier class combos after getting a gear/money/boxing skill base, go for it. Just probably don't ease yourself into the server on hard mode
I roll, cleric/ench/BL on the sole purpose of charming charming is VERY tuned, Torven parsed logs to get a very accurate formula. Sometimes I'll have 2 charm breaks in a row, sometimes it last 3 minutes, sometimes its 10 minutes, sometimes its max duration. CHA only affects the initial charm land and does not affect duration (only MR does.) - cleric for rez/heals obviously (with snare neck but I use root on ench religiously because snare neck last 36 seconds so not really worth it... hide is the real reason to go DE) - BL (very important to have a pet on the mob your fighting incase of charm break, the BL pet will gain agro of the original mob you were fighting so the ench only has to deal with 1 mob on charm break (could go bard for mezz roll in PoP era)) (other choice was mage, but BL reigns supreme) because of SoW, extra mana regen at 59, and extra slower... no point in meleeing with BL until you get the dagger from HS that procs 600dmg. However you may want to, to keep up on def/off skills... I do use BL now to fight, but pre 50 he was just healing his pet - ench play this character the most. (very important to have rod of insidious glamour to refresh spell gems when using pbaoe to handle charm breaks) pros... I can pretty much do any camp by myself, was doing fungi king at 58. My dps can be insane with another person (another trio) we are a very serious unstoppable force cons... porter (kinda sucks with no succor or a way to gate all my toons at once... BL uses OT hammer.) snare (but I use root religiously because ench gains agro a lot, (because of slows or mana tap)) no FD (the only camp I can't do is Tranix because you need a FD puller because of belly casters no paci) stressful gameplay (it's not fun sometimes having to be attentive to EQ 100% of the time when charming.) but honestly you don't need to charm to do pretty much any camp as a trio. if you go the more traditional, (tank, slower,healer) trio you will do fine but it will be slower (but safer and less stressful) but if you want to level fast i'd suggest something with a mage (and probably a druid too so you can PL other toons.)
Enchanter Cleric Shaman/Mage/Druid/Beastlord Can't decide on that last class. Shaman: Best slows, best MR debuff, Torpor, good tanking ability with ogre, mediocre pets Mage: Great DPS, MR Debuff, Pet weapons, ezpz pet dps, nukes, coth, invis Druid: DS, Ports, Buffs, Snare Beastlord: Gimped version of the Shaman with better pets and some unique buffs but not 100% on the advantages of a shaman over a Beastlord. I'm leaning toward a class that gives me the ability to PL, so that would be a mage or a Druid. I'm hearing conflicting reports on how useful snare really is for charming. I'm probably over thinking this and should just pick one, go with my gut and get started. Anyways, I think this discussion is good to have because I think these posts are very useful for new players or people in a similar situation.
snare isn't useful for charming with an enchanter as much as it is useful for charming with druid i have never snared a pet, plus snare doesn't do much when you're deep in a dungeon and have no room to kite. using pbaoe is how you deal with charm breaks (some use low level mez, but thats a waste of a gem slot imo) i think you should go mage as your last class and make a shammy friend to sell you sow pots and without the BL all your toons will be able to gate which will be nice
Is slowing on the chanter going to cause aggro issues? I know you said you use the BL for slowing since his role really doesn't flesh out until 50+ I thought about the shaman potion route as well. Hell, I could even level a shaman up on my own to do pots. Another factor is I'm very familiar with the shaman class. Since my plan is generally going to be in dungeons sow isn't a huge consideration Should rename the thread "Indecisive guy leans on server vets for advice" Thanks for all the responses. Special shoutout to Surron. I hope to see you all in game as soon as I get up and running. My basement project is almost done and I can get to boxing. Watch out Norrath.
Ensnare is invaluable for charmed pets. I disagree completely that it isn't useful indoors for an enchanter/Druid combination. Many locations your charmed pet may be difficult to pull and Ensnare / Egress allows for you to park a pet out. In most indoor locations later on, there is plenty of room to kite an Ensnared pet. Basically every indoor planar zone allows room for this. CoDecay, Tactics, PoWater. Even the outdoor ones that are cramped like PoTorment, PoInnovation, PoFire in some areas, BoT, HoH, etc. I never used PBAE Stun on my enchanter because it largely gets useless during PoP due to level caps. I never used PBAE Mez either because where I guarded my pet always allowed sufficient room to either aggro on Druid and kite away while recharming on enchanter or stun on cleric and recharm on enchanter. But I suspect I'm weird in my lack of WoM use. 300 mana is a waste when it can be done for a lot less on other boxes IMO. Cleric + Enchanter is a solid duo by itself. When adding a third I would rank Druid > Magician > Shaman. Magician certainly has several things going for it. Malo, Pet Weapons, CotH, and backup pet primarily. Druid though has speed buffs, more mana regen via Skin line, Ports, Ensnares, second charm pet in some instances, backup heals/CHs. For all-around activity, you really don't need Malosinia. Killed about every mob and farmed about every camp in PoP without Malosinia. Pet weapons will be available in the bazaar eventually I'm sure, if they aren't you can always grab some rusty daggers. CotH is surely useful when boxing but so is porting and FoE. Just my 2 cents! Druids are awesome.
Druid is my favorite class and don't get me wrong I understand the importance of ensnare. In this era, velious and luclin you don't have those wide open dungeons like you're talking about in PoP. I would agree that ensnare is super nice in potactics but then again once I am in PoP I would use a bard for mezz roll. Mobs summon 51+ so ensnare wont help with that. The 3 box limitations is why imo a pet class or even bard mezz roll is way better option with a cleric/ench. With a druid, whether or not the mobs are snared, you now have to deal with 2 mobs on a charm break, with the possibility of both summoning. It's just not viable with 3 box limit.
Eh I'm thinking more about PoP being enabled. Kunark/Velious/Luclin are all short term in the grand scheme of this server.
Hey guys, I'm starting out with a rogue here and was wondering if anyone had some tips for choosing boxes for the rogue. I am leaning toward druid & enchanter. Druid gives heals, evac, snare. Enc has slows and haste, among other things. Alternatively, if you are levelling some alts in the evening (10ish CST)and could use a low level rogue, shoot Aades a tell.
its really gonna depend on how you want to use your rogue. are you tanking on the rogue or trying to tank on another char and backstab? i like a shaman in place of the druid in that team. shaman has better buffs for your rogue and can tank while the rogue backstabs if need be. i dunno, these 3boxing conversations are endless because you can't have everything and not everyone is willing to give up the same things. some people can't live without ports, others without slows, others without snares, others without mana regen, others without a "real tank", etc etc. the best thing to pair with a rogue is a guild =P
Hah, thats true. I would love to just play the rogue and group with someone else's boxes. I planned on tanking with the rogue, but might try that Shaman tank. Might as well try it both ways and see what sticks. Thanks!
These discussions cultivate the community and get people talking. Bonds created. It's EQ at it's finest. Just look how active this single thread has been since I started it. Created connections to multiple people for me alone. But you're absolutely right, the box team is really a personal choice with what you want to gain and what you can't give up. For me I made it because I've been on p99 for 3 years, prior to that I was away from EQ for at least 12 years. Choosing a three box when I have no exp boxing is tough, hence why I came to you guys for advice. A sticky thread that people can look at in regards to some popular trio comps would be super useful. If I knew more I would contribute. Just an idea. I think a trio based on a rogue as the primary is probably one of the more difficult to give advice on because it seems to me that it will be one of the weaker classes starting out fresh with no gear. So you need a healer for sure. Cleric, druid or shaman. I think if you're going to do a melee box you're best bet would be Cleric, Shaman and Rogue. Great heals from the cleric, best slows + dots and buffs from shaman. Or you could go Cleric, Chanter and Rogue. Better dps but more to manage if you charm. Either way I think if you want to tank on your rogue you will want slows and haste. Leaving you with Shaman or Chanter as a stable with your main healer being your biggest decision. Or you could go Tank Healer Rogue. Will give you more opportunity to play your rogue like a rogue. But you might end up playing your tank as the primary in that situation.
Is this definitely true on TAKP? If so, while I agree that charm resist rates feel pretty good right now on TAKP, it isn't quite accurate. On EQMac, charm's per-tick chance to break used a modification of the same formula it used to land in the first place, which was calculated as follows: a standard saving throw percentage was first determined on MR/level difference; then the chance to resist was decreased by an integer equal to (charisma - 75)/8 but no lower than 0 and no higher than 25 (i.e. capping CHA at 275 for impact on charm, mez, and fear); then set to 5% if it was below 5%. The per-tick chance to break was considerably more obscure (the guy who figured this stuff out explained it to me at a level of technical detail somewhat beyond my limited intellectual capacity ), but it seemed to start with a standard check (including the CHA adjustment) modified with a bunch of crap (the caster's level was artificially inflated, the PoP charm AAs were figured in, and some additional arbitrary bonus was then applied).
Before playing here I never knew much about boxing, either. In the past decade I had played two characters at once only a handful of times. Now, well... let's say I'm comfortable. Honestly just stop theory crafting and get in game You'll know by level 10 if you like your team or not.
https://github.com/EQMacEmu/Server/search?utf8=✓&q=charm+CHA&type=Code I wouldn't mess with charm duration. Kayen has 50+ hours parsing eqlive. While Torven has a thread around here about how he has parsed live and proven CHA does not affect charm duration. It's kind of hard to go off that formula since there is no way to prove it anymore.
My real PC is shut down while I refinish my basement. Right now I'm relegated to play on a laptop that can maybe handle 2 boxes but not really how I want to play. But yeah you're right, I need to pick my trio and go. Believe me, if I could have been online and playing already I would be. Hoping to have the basement ready for me to get setup by the weekend.
In response to Aades' rogue question. I play pally, rogue, shaman and really enjoy the trio. No ports and the inability to gate is annoying but I love the crew while settled in camp. I'm sure there are more efficient comps, but I love rogues and pallies, so this comp is perfect for me.
I personally would go druid, enchanter, rogue. Rogue is that one class where you definitely can't have it all with your trio. Druid + Chanter gives you an assortment of buffs. You can fear kite to raise back stab if you haven't grouped in a while. You can play with charm, you can easily break indoor or outdoor camps (lull/harmony/sneak pull), and you'll have enough DPS to cruise into the 50s. You'll also have snare to keep dungeons under control. And ports to keep your rogue mobile.
I run Monk/Cleric/BL as my main trio which plays in a similar fashion to monk/shaman/cleric. I run a DE cleric and find the clickie snare necklace to be quite reliable. It took awhile for it to become a habit to snare mobs at 30% however. Pacify is really all the CC you need. Monk/shaman/cleric can handle 2-3 mobs. 4 mobs is dicey but if your on your game definitely possible. Once a mob is slowed monks tank fine. In classic monks tank just fine even without slow. T-staff is incredible agro. Also it makes the monk a much better tank as you simply don't get hit for 12 seconds a proc. HUGE!!! I pull agro off epic warriors when using it. If no t-staff Adamantite club is cheap and also very good agro. Monks also simply generate agro faster then warriors because of better weapon ratios. I've never had problems with agro with my trio. I feel like my trio can do anything a traditional tank/healer/support trio can do while also having higher DPS. My toons are well geared though and pre-60 the BL was definitely slacking. Really about what you want to play though. I wanted to play a monk as a main so I made it work.
The problem with a monk tank is that if they do lose agro, it's impossible for them to snap it back. No taunt or quick spells.
Warriors suffer same problem but get to roll a dice when they hit taunt. Monks simply out agro warriors with their better ratios. Paladin/SK/Ranger are definitely more reliable in terms of snap agro and keeping mob focused. No doubt about that. Guess since you are controlling other two characters you get a feel for what will pull agro off your monk. The cleric HoT spell is amazing as no agro is generated and also simple to use. Makes it easy for monk to tank 3-4 mobs and cleric not pull agro. Also I keep both DAs up constantly on my cleric. Allows for a ch once HoT isn't good enough and then quickly DA to drop agro. Dicey situations with 3-4 mobs don't happen that often. I generally slow with my BL shortly after pull and he doesn't take agro.
