the traps in Chardok has a counter of 20 before it despawns, and they are also detectable and can be disarmed (over-ride the counter and despawn it)
Charm casts from NPCs now resist like normal spells do, requiring 201 effective MR (MR after level difference and CHA bonus) to guarantee a resist. Before the patch, any NPC that was deeper blue than a couple of levels would never have a chance to get it off, making enchanter NPCs nonthreatening. The resist modifier from level difference still applies: levelDiff * levelDiff / 2, capped at 112. I.e. to 100% resist all charms from a green con that is 15+ levels under you, you would need 89 MR. This assumes 75 charisma though, so more MR would be required if the NPC has higher charisma, but the CHA bonus isn't huge. CHA bonus is: CharismaOver75 / 10. NPCs up to level 50 have anywhere from 75-200 CHA. 51+ have higher. I didn't set NPC CHA values but they look reasonable. Anyway, charm is certainly resistible. And welcome to EQ, where dark blue cons can kill you.
Does this CHA bonus apply to Player Character charms? If you got a formula you can share that'd be amazing, this revelation that CHA has a meaningful purpose other than vendor prices is all very new to me.
Yes, CHA always modified PC initial charm resist checks-- it does not however affect tick checks. It may not have been noticed since the code had a small bug in it that was making charms resist slightly more than they should have; and it's a small bonus to begin with.
Two questions. 1. What restists do pets take on? Do they take on whatever resists their owners have ie if my mage has a current mr of 175 will my pet have the same or is it something entirely different? 2. Do charm spells have the same lvl checks when cast on players as they do npcs?? For example there really shouldn’t be any charm spell a lvl 59 or 60 can be hit by since they are over the lvl limit (even dictate has a limit of 58). Or can PCs be hit by any charm including allure, boltrans, etc regardless of lvl?
I believe Cavedude put in the logic to make pets use the same resists as owners awhile ago. I could be wrong. NPC charms ignore the level limit of the spells.
FWIW, Haynar, ports are now landing some toons at the x=0, y=0 point in zones. I've seen it happen in PoK and OT, though not 100% of the time. Sometimes you land at the evac point.
Yeah, saw this today. Most of the group went to the new port in by the PoT stone. One landed near the tree by Cadelawin Browan. Kinda neat.
I've ported 3 chars to Wakening Lands, two ended up at Kael succor spot and one in the middle of the zone at 0,0... I've also heard of a guildmate using OT hammer and being ported to 0,0 which is in the middle of the scorpksis canyon, ouch
It's been a week now and I'm fairly certain the new charm mechanics have made things worse from a charm break/duration point of view. I've been charming ire ghasts in plane of hate. They seem to have low MR to start with. They are around 10 levels below me. I debuff mobs with Tashanian -41MR and Malosini -60MR , so the mobs MR should probably be in the negatives. Experiencing a lot of very short duration charms, sometimes breaks in the same tick. Pretty much never had this happen before, and in the past I didn't have the -60 MR from Malosini. Is there maybe some kind of issue with negative numbers rolling over or something? I'm assuming not but figured I'd ask... Also with another lvl 60 enchanter that has lower charisma (around 150 buffed), I'm getting a lot of early charm breaks, compared to an ench with 220+ charisma. I was under the impression CHA played very small to non-existant role in charming from reading these threads: https://web.archive.org/web/20050224030149/http://www.therunes.net:80/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1148 http://otherworlds31279.yuku.com/topic/1046/spotlight-on-Charisma#.WStQKGiGOUl https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/the-effect-of-cha-on-mez-charm-lull.223925/ In short, after these changes Charming seems to be noticeably worse. The patch notes said it should be same or better. What was wrong with it before? Felt fine before. Thanks for your consideration.
I changed two things: one, the minimum resist on charm save throws (went from 5 to 12) and two, the roll chance that this save throw is checked (from 55% to 25%). So the chance to break on a throw is higher but the chance to check the throw is lower. This results in about the same average charm duration on 0 MR targets. I suppose it might make charm a bit more streaky. Charm is supposed to have a chance to break on every single tick, no matter what the target's MR or enchanter's AAs. This was the case before and after the patch. Charisma only affects the resist chance of the spell landing. It does not affect tick save throws at all. Charisma for charm purposes is worthless if the target has zero effective MR.
so if I'm reading this correctly you more than doubled the chance that charm will break each tick from 55% to not-break to 25% chance to not-break (save throw) that feels about right, my charming feels roughly twice as worse ouch, any reason for this massive nerf?
well something feels roughly twice as likely to break on a tick, i'm getting very odd behavior on highly -MR debuffed mobs i think you're right, the chance to check the throw halved, but some save throw went from 5 to 12
55 to 25 is more than half. Here are some results from simulations I ran compared with the best data sample I have from AK logs using a non-TD charmer: Code: [ Only registered users can see the bbcode. Click Here To Register... ] I did test the server code with several dozen charms each both before and after the patch to make sure I didn't goof up somewhere, and the results came out as expected.
ok glamor of tunare is -20 MR and ~20 min duration or thereabouts, similar to Allure caster advantage due to level difference for the druid scenario is -40 MR not sure what sabertooth mobs MR value is , but assuming somewhere around 20 to 40MR? so effectively -20 MR resist value on the mob is what you were going with keep in mind that -MR debuffs (tash and malosini) are shorter duration than Allure, so they will wear off I typically forcefully break my charms around the 10-12min mark to refresh -MR debuffs previously, there was a 55% chance that the effective MR value would be 5 MR for a tick check on a charm break, and 45% chance it would be the mobs actual MR value ( debuffed value -20MR in test scenario), is that right? now there is a 25% chance that the effective MR value would be be 12 MR for a tick check on a charm break, and 75% chance it would be the mobs actual MR value (debuffed -20 MR in test scenario), is that right? as a result of changes the chance for max charm duration has gone from 9% to 6%, so around 30% worse but the 'average' duration now more closely matches your druid sample data it's certainly more streaky and random now, and noticeably less longer duration charms
Glamour of Tunare is an animal tash, which is an MR debuff. That data sample is not the only charm data that I have to compare with, but that sample was of a deep green con of a low level NPC so the likelihood of it being 0 MR is high. AK isn't around anymore so we have to make due with what we've got. AK logs are also combat logs and not carefully prepared data collecting endeavors. I have to use my own logs for this because I know what I did in them, so I can't use user submitted logs. Here is the same algorithm simulating an enchanter with TD3 compared with AK and Live data: Code: [ Only registered users can see the bbcode. Click Here To Register... ] I have to try and make the algorithm fit all known data sets. I can't just make it perfectly fit one data set without it deviating from others. Complicating matters is the AK data being extremely thin. Even collecting Live data is very time consuming. That Live sample for example is 8 hours long, but 59 casts isn't a lot. We don't get volunteers begging to collect data for us. 6% to 9% max charms is within the margin of error. It would not be noticed by the player. I can rerun that simulation of 1000 casts many times and get anywhere from 4-7% (new code) vs. 6-9% (old code). The new code is very very slightly less forgiving however at sub 6 resist, but much more forgiving if your target has 6 or more effective resist. Before the patch, charm was virtually useless on anything above like 10 MR. Luclin encounters use charm, so it needed to adjusted. TL;DL the RNG is Fing with you
Another data point: I've spent probably 12ish hours lolzing around Kael with a charmed dire wolf over the last week. Qualitatively, my experience feels the same after the patch as it did before. I frequently get max-duration charms, but early brakes do happen from time to time, as they did before the patch. Caveat: the wolves I've been charming are level 52-53 and might have higher innate MR than the ire ghasts Rimi's been using. They've always been a bit breakier than Hate pets.
Thanks for all the supplementing info Torven. I'll do some testing in Sirens Grotto, where mobs are much more MR. Sounds like it should be better there.
This has a #ravenwinged smell all over it. You know, when mechanics works fine then someone says a word then the mechanics gets "fixed" and breaks mechanics.
I agree that NPC charm was bouncing too readily. I noticed it in PoM and had been meaning to bring it up.
Today I died in hate because my epic pet got charmed. I've never remembered the epic being charmed not saying its not possible but shouldn't land by a mob in hate, mage MR was 162 but epic pet has a a super high MR by itself and resist almost all charm/fears etc
