Charm Changes Over Nerfed?

Has anyone else had any luck with charm since the new checks went into place? I haven't been able to keep a NPC 1 - 2 levels below me, with tash applied charmed for more than about 30 seconds.

 

I charm regularly in LGuk with an enchanter level 46-48 and have had no problems charming bloodthirsty ghouls and other mobs, but they are around level 38-43 so I can't tell you about 1-2 levels below me.

Maybe Torven's charm calculations has a heavy weight on npc level vs pc level, will need his input.

 

Yup would be interested to see how it's being calculated. Your charm lasts a fair duration? I have no problem with the initial charm it just breaks so quickly that it is nothing but a death sentence to use.

 

I didn't implement the charm resist logic, I merely un-broke it. The resist check on ticks just wasn't working at all. The only reason some charms even broke early was because the resist check (for all spells) was set to > instead of >=, so it was possible for any target to resist anything at any resist level if it rolled 0.

The current charm resist logic was implemented by Kayen, an eqemu dev. He did many parses on Live some time ago. What I did was replicate his C++ code in lua so I could unit test it and compare it against my own parses. They matched close enough that I accepted it and moved on to the next problem.

Charm is supposed to have a chance to break at any time, on anything, even with 0 resist, even with enchanter AA TD3. If you cast 3 charms, get a bad streak of breaks, and give up, then that's the RNG and not the algorithm.

Also the algorithm currently makes charm much, much less effective on yellows and reds by giving them a substantial resist bonus. I didn't add that, but I left it in. Charm on a white con however will hold as well as charm on a green con so long as tash or malo remains on it. (yellows may hold if you have tash+malo) Charm will not currently hold very well if the target has any significant MR. If you charm a caster and it casts a shielding buff, then it's not gonna hold well unless you debuff it a lot.

Here's some of my parse analyses. Note that average charm durations will not be directly comparable on spells with different maximum durations.

Druid Charm - Al'Kabor

Wooly Rhino (level 38-39), Eastern Wastes - Level 44 Caster
Charms: 37
durations: 32, 104, 3, 18, 39, 56, 71, 142, 45, 7, 83, 12, 110, 49, 146, 55, 67, 18, 0, 1, 74, 40, 14, 21, 41, 46, 13, 146, 28, 30, 89, 100, 24, 51, 83, 10, 5,
min duration: 0 ticks; max duration: 146 ticks; avg duration: 51 ticks


A Rockhopper (level 37-45), Dawnshroud Peaks - Level 46-51 Caster
Charms: 99
durations: 4, 23, 19, 12, 74, 63, 61, 2, 11, 10, 61, 148, 65, 103, 49, 51, 152, 15, 87, 6, 43, 35, 45, 28, 50, 13, 6, 152, 68, 8, 20, 55, 155, 8, 155, 78, 155, 19, 10, 155, 44, 73, 25, 124, 31, 10, 17, 20, 158, 93, 158, 23, 71, 33, 40, 23, 29, 23, 28, 83, 106, 97, 25, 153, 2, 5, 63, 54, 161, 105, 161, 50, 42, 107, 15, 34, 33, 0, 116, 85, 25, 1, 38, 45, 93, 76, 18, 125, 23, 27, 15, 53, 77, 82, 24, 44, 78, 30, 86,
min duration: 0 ticks; max duration: 161 ticks; avg duration: 58.5 ticks


A Raptor (level 40-43), Timorous Deep - Level 51-53 Caster
Charms: 58
durations: 7, 22, 5, 65, 14, 24, 128, 10, 20, 88, 22, 114, 95, 1, 34, 38, 142, 10, 124, 34, 59, 57, 6, 74, 77, 16, 16, 121, 13, 43, 89, 45, 170, 2, 54, 50, 48, 12, 170, 0, 25, 32, 12, 34, 3, 46, 11, 71, 9, 15, 85, 64, 79, 12, 22, 0, 22, 170,
min duration: 0 ticks; max duration: 170 ticks; avg duration: 49.2 ticks


A Vicious Raptor (level 43-45), Timorous Deep - Level 54 Caster; use of Glamour of Tunare
Charms: 40
durations: 4, 47, 18, 98, 83, 149, 112, 69, 7, 8, 57, 35, 81, 3, 32, 33, 7, 34, 66, 66, 47, 92, 61, 70, 84, 89, 67, 173, 62, 41, 2, 30, 4, 59, 28, 18, 165, 34, 1, 24,
min duration: 1 ticks; max duration: 173 ticks; avg duration: 54.4 ticks


A sabertooth grimalkin (level 22-24), Lake of Ill Omen - Level 55 Caster; use of Glamour of Tunare
Charms: 32
durations: 72, 42, 27, 30, 25, 52, 4, 58, 38, 87, 21, 3, 98, 3, 35, 69, 11, 3, 81, 12, 33, 6, 37, 90, 40, 11, 14, 10, 57, 123, 149, 177,
min duration: 3 ticks; max duration: 177 ticks; avg duration: 47.8 ticks


A Raptor (level 40-43), Timorous Deep - Level 55 Caster; use of Glamour of Tunare
Charms: 9
durations: 1, 3, 127, 80, 51, 9, 58, 90, 70,
min duration: 1 ticks; max duration: 127 ticks; avg duration: 54.8 ticks


A Raptor (level 40-43), Timorous Deep - Level 55 Caster; use of Glamour of Tunare
Charms: 52
durations: 92, 62, 54, 48, 32, 175, 156, 94, 93, 163, 8, 10, 69, 73, 55, 17, 51, 31, 32, 13, 14, 176, 128, 100, 14, 73, 89, 175, 22, 15, 37, 19, 121, 31, 11, 3, 55, 95, 53, 121, 28, 42, 65, 71, 46, 53, 22, 14, 125, 29, 10, 62,
min duration: 3 ticks; max duration: 176 ticks; avg duration: 62.8 ticks


A sabertooth grimalkin (level 22-24), Lake of Ill Omen - Level 56 Caster; use of Glamour of Tunare
Charms: 145
durations: 21, 19, 33, 117, 51, 56, 0, 31, 79, 15, 2, 77, 125, 131, 69, 30, 100, 180, 71, 24, 3, 178, 1, 0, 20, 86, 9, 5, 78, 128, 139, 17, 57, 179, 82, 60, 175, 13, 20, 20, 23, 1, 34, 10, 10, 83, 71, 5, 57, 42, 5, 73, 62, 37, 144, 5, 15, 27, 142, 55, 75, 65, 29, 39, 62, 115, 75, 179, 45, 8, 160, 57, 28, 88, 61, 66, 88, 176, 25, 3, 75, 179, 62, 180, 31, 92, 90, 56, 128, 6, 27, 39, 112, 0, 93, 73, 7, 66, 180, 176, 85, 10, 15, 89, 2, 90, 32, 6, 17, 67, 84, 179, 30, 7, 59, 24, 65, 8, 139, 90, 15, 76, 37, 64, 19, 21, 162, 21, 2, 24, 27, 54, 6, 53, 4, 95, 37, 19, 156, 48, 83, 147, 76, 53, 6,
min duration: 0 ticks; max duration: 180 ticks; avg duration: 61.9 ticks


Enchanter Charm - Al'Kabor

Diaku Sentry (level 60) with tash and malo on 100% of the time
Enchanter: Level 65 with TD3; Charisma value uncertain but relatively high if not capped at 305
Full Charm Resists: 0
Maximum Charm Duration: ~07:45 (~77 ticks)
Average Charm Duration: 05:39 (56.5 ticks, 73.3%)
Number of Max Charms: 16 of 36 (44.4%)


Enchanter Charm - EverQuest Live

A decaying skeleton (level 1), Greater Faydark - Level 25 Caster with 148 Charisma; Spell: Charm
Charms: 77; Max charms: 28 (36%)
durations: 87, 8, 21, 87, 26, 87, 79, 86, 44, 54, 49, 21, 13, 87, 86, 71, 31, 3, 54, 87, 49, 40, 87, 56, 37, 87, 65, 30, 72, 87, 1, 22, 63, 48, 87, 49, 87, 87, 87, 45, 74, 16, 87, 87, 18, 16, 87, 70, 18, 12, 87, 87, 58, 1, 28, 30, 67, 28, 87, 9, 87, 19, 87, 21, 41, 87, 27, 87, 87, 61, 11, 19, 87, 0, 87, 7, 87,
min duration: 0 ticks; max duration: 87 ticks; avg duration: 54.1 ticks


A decaying skeleton (level 1), Greater Faydark - Level 65 Caster with TD3 and 305 Charisma; Spell: Boltran's Agacerie
Charms: 59; Max Charms: 26 (44%)
durations: 27, 33, 24, 28, 76, 8, 77, 5, 9, 77, 77, 77, 76, 77, 77, 24, 76, 77, 77, 62, 31, 49, 77, 31, 77, 77, 29, 29, 76, 27, 77, 21, 77, 77, 56, 12, 77, 20, 77, 31, 6, 66, 11, 40, 26, 77, 25, 76, 67, 36, 76, 19, 27, 36, 42, 25, 77, 77, 61,
min duration: 5 ticks; max duration: 77 ticks; avg duration: 50.5 ticks


Post-nerf Charm, TAKP, Simulated

Simulating 1000 casts at 25 resist value; caster level 50 target level 40
Initial Effective resist value: -33.5; tick effective value: 12.121212121212
full resists: 0 (0%); lands: 1000 (100%); avg duration ticks: 57 (35%)
Durations: 33, 94, 3, 17, 49, 3, 15, 53, 65, 56, 12, 161, 42, 87, 15, 4, 11, 9, 16, 12, 51, 161, 23, 76, 16, 120, 72, 49, 10, 17, 51, 22, 75, 146, 1, 1, 161, 161, 96, 161, 32, 54, 53, 78, 88, 42, 15, 149, 71, 141, 26, 61, 23, 35, 31, 58, 161, 41, 38, 28, 27, 106, 51, 30, 46, 1, 30, 9, 81, 54, 100, 64, 86, 7, 9, 22, 20, 33, 1, 50, 26, 62, 112, 161, 13, 81, 21, 88, 37, 81, 1, 50, 29, 4, 30, 39, 28, 2, 88, 62, 25, 161, 43, 32, 161, 12, 72, 82, 74, 20, 60, 81, 129, 109, 23, 51, 15, 136, 22, 17, 20, 17, 7, 35, 75, 62, 55, 30, 9, 17, 60, 45, 106, 16, 76, 4, 142, 58, 2, 60, 54, 112, 16, 78, 80, 135, 21, 14, 80, 161, 33, 92, 47, 71, 26, 6, 32, 68, 126, 13, 25, 128, 28, 48, 161, 16, 32, 90, 99, 78, 50, 40, 156, 80, 119, 7, 45, 161, 4, 127, 161, 33, 4, 121, 98, 109, 161, 44, 156, 37, 7, 87, 52, 26, 3, 80, 138, 47, 17, 14, 16, 30, 1, 3, 109, 74, 16, 136, 161, 30, 66, 61, 14, 78, 17, 116, 45, 161, 15, 64, 10, 43, 32, 48, 32, 34, 57, 104, 130, 21, 161, 161, 19, 161, 12, 13, 9, 23, 49, 58, 112, 84, 16, 36, 6, 69, 67, 58, 60, 7, 22, 131, 65, 153, 45, 8, 161, 3, 22, 86, 141, 161, 95, 9, 50, 104, 13, 83, 11, 142, 28, 2, 1, 29, 59, 69, 3, 39, 161, 23, 29, 1, 67, 140, 161, 3, 50, 47, 76, 16, 79, 4, 1, 11, 161, 20, 12, 41, 148, 33, 1, 52, 161, 8, 74, 11, 92, 161, 146, 21, 7, 157, 11, 19, 2, 65, 22, 161, 94, 60, 48, 94, 128, 68, 133, 23, 4, 18, 2, 46, 41, 76, 30, 112, 31, 20, 74, 40, 27, 63, 161, 62, 9, 97, 112, 40, 29, 82, 82, 101, 161, 118, 109, 11, 21, 100, 110, 25, 35, 4, 158, 73, 52, 125, 15, 7, 32, 33, 42, 22, 49, 61, 6, 2, 50, 7, 32, 42, 16, 16, 22, 62, 1, 49, 161, 7, 1, 34, 52, 39, 31, 161, 161, 16, 29, 161, 12, 15, 5, 161, 133, 5, 18, 74, 110, 161, 5, 14, 18, 7, 63, 114, 19, 76, 4, 11, 18, 16, 13, 65, 25, 49, 34, 42, 1, 13, 109, 161, 18, 19, 55, 9, 73, 39, 12, 109, 76, 2, 72, 53, 33, 122, 161, 103, 16, 12, 27, 161, 60, 18, 18, 23, 122, 1, 33, 2, 35, 161, 144, 91, 155, 88, 161, 35, 2, 2, 58, 52, 99, 107, 161, 54, 57, 65, 20, 4, 4, 17, 47, 113, 14, 17, 35, 5, 7, 25, 8, 6, 124, 2, 37, 151, 17, 7, 161, 148, 161, 38, 143, 8, 106, 36, 6, 106, 146, 15, 82, 146, 2, 74, 45, 110, 9, 31, 25, 24, 34, 85, 122, 92, 42, 161, 76, 109, 7, 91, 7, 20, 145, 34, 94, 26, 124, 76, 70, 22, 42, 15, 119, 34, 46, 48, 23, 40, 29, 24, 131, 161, 20, 28, 131, 57, 70, 90, 126, 8, 125, 125, 156, 55, 49, 21, 49, 161, 18, 148, 17, 71, 33, 133, 105, 81, 7, 23, 150, 112, 1, 11, 16, 30, 138, 33, 48, 49, 19, 11, 36, 32, 100, 43, 21, 32, 73, 20, 19, 48, 26, 49, 17, 159, 17, 28, 24, 90, 135, 161, 23, 24, 26, 101, 144, 71, 58, 90, 3, 12, 161, 30, 3, 11, 22, 47, 109, 5, 36, 12, 27, 91, 81, 161, 67, 15, 66, 32, 41, 63, 2, 30, 95, 39, 18, 75, 74, 1, 161, 29, 36, 78, 32, 5, 23, 7, 30, 87, 161, 10, 27, 1, 61, 3, 90, 38, 21, 161, 66, 66, 16, 2, 117, 161, 43, 3, 2, 25, 48, 2, 60, 69, 52, 40, 25, 143, 2, 98, 51, 28, 55, 23, 6, 161, 141, 46, 22, 15, 11, 13, 4, 27, 2, 123, 16, 40, 125, 39, 79, 67, 96, 4, 28, 19, 57, 116, 36, 161, 1, 161, 19, 4, 5, 55, 87, 29, 84, 26, 17, 41, 33, 14, 3, 13, 20, 47, 41, 161, 9, 4, 149, 124, 114, 33, 84, 52, 9, 8, 25, 53, 18, 29, 30, 92, 45, 2, 35, 21, 57, 56, 14, 12, 19, 161, 161, 88, 161, 5, 130, 70, 18, 106, 30, 28, 32, 7, 145, 3, 4, 21, 89, 53, 13, 85, 61, 17, 143, 51, 7, 161, 161, 17, 161, 11, 61, 34, 34, 56, 2, 131, 99, 22, 75, 59, 21, 17, 107, 3, 10, 12, 11, 83, 9, 21, 128, 11, 52, 161, 66, 12, 24, 68, 32, 22, 6, 141, 88, 11, 29, 20, 152, 34, 75, 81, 101, 38, 136, 11, 62, 12, 42, 5, 45, 39, 53, 161, 161, 18, 8, 12, 37, 18, 27, 33, 6, 12, 127, 14, 161, 161, 7, 28, 9, 6, 83, 102, 24, 159, 106, 161, 40, 23, 21, 53, 135, 31, 2, 74, 161, 10, 29, 29, 73, 71, 77, 12, 120, 65, 1, 116, 151, 14, 40, 155, 129, 76, 6, 135, 7, 95, 119, 20, 77, 3, 118, 7, 161, 58, 14, 7, 35, 84, 1, 161, 29, 42, 12, 35, 121, 136, 9, 39, 45, 68, 161, 10, 161, 120, 6, 72, 9, 75, 1, 3, 12, 55, 72, 161, 63, 17, 24, 161, 2, 161, 124, 28, 95, 67, 44, 71, 51, 13, 14, 2, 143, 8, 161, 82, 11, 25, 29, 31, 7, 12, 16, 40, 109, 107, 90, 29, 60, 151, 50, 109, 113, 57, 161, 34, 2, 1, 10, 6, 80, 64, 5, 56, 83, 12, 34, 9, 45, 2, 145, 10, 64, 150, 34, 100, 49, 6, 41, 8, 47, 33,
longest charm: 161 ticks

 

that.... is strange. the level 25 was doing better than the level 65. further proof of how strange the RNG can be?

 

I haven't weighed in on this issue yet because honestly I haven't attempted to charm a single mob (mostly due to attention restraints. I play pretty casually a lot, at home or at work, and have to take long breaks between fights (like when my boss decides to walk in) so charming just hasn't been a viable strategy for me yet.)

I'll give it a go when I find time, but what Torven posted sounds pretty much what I recall from charming.

 

Torven you are correct my sample size was not large so I could have just rolled shitty. I'll go ahead and try more and turn /log on and ship you what results I can manage to grab.

One note as I saw in another one of your posts, these are against city guards so I'm not sure if that affects anything. However I do remember murdering these guys to get to 50 in live and other emus (I'm completely unfamiliar with real TAK so I know things are different and I'm ok with that).

 

I just sent you a log with another small sample size...it's probably MR that is screwing me based on resists and root times. I died without killing 1 single mob, so I kinda lost my will to keep going at that point .

 

The level 25 had a longer charm duration due to the spell used; it was 10 ticks longer so that increased the average duration. Percent of max charms was higher on the 65.

The mobs you attempted to charm have 75 MR. I didn't set that value, but I do know that guards tend to have higher than normal MR. Most NPCs have 25 MR. Project 1999 guards didn't seem to have an increased MR when I killed them, but I noticed it on AK, at least Oggok guards did. As I said before, mobs with any significant amount of MR will break charm a lot here.

 

Feign death should break charm right?

 

On a somewhat related note, it would seem lower levs of enchanter tash and bard charm and mez seem to be on the same buff slot. Specifically song of siren and pixie strike