So I guess it's no mystery that things like AC and resists are not functioning as they should. I ask simply: What can I do to help. I don't have old logs. I do have time. I want to contribute. I want to make this and other servers based on this better. Help me help us
I belive there is some good info on ac and how it worked on alkabor relating to soft caps and returns over soft cap and other things I don't quiet understand on the destiny forums that speedz will have access to. If this is of any use I can point him in The right direction
To be clear, I'm not asking for someone already under a huge work load to sacrifice even more time to this. I'm offering my time to help share the work load. I have time I can dedicate to this and I want to be able to contribute. Just need someone to point me in the right direction.
I am not a dev here. I also don't know you or your skills. So I was basically offering to help too. You said u didnt have parses. Do thats what i asked for. I know the basics on how AC worked during pop era. I used pop era parses to create the basis for p99's AC system. I corrected pop post monk nerf to pre nerf to get more classic curves. I was looking to help with some tweaks to their current system to get it in the ballpark. I have no plans to completely rewrite their system. Takp's hit distribution seems most off that I see. For given gear, I am tanking worse against same mobs as I level. Which to me says their comparison against a cap, is going off players level. It should go off mobs level, and have an additional modifier for level difference. There could be some little changes to improve it drastically. H
My skills aren't very impressive. Just looking to help in the must mundane way. Look at parses. Stand and generate parses. Or something else that's generally time consuming but doesn't require a crazy level of understanding. I wish I could bring something better but for now all I can offer is time to do bitch work. Which I'm ok with.
I know if I did AC curves again, I would do it different. There would be 3 pieces, 1-50, 51-60, 61+. They had different feels. I dont have any of my old data or spreadsheets with equations. H
AC/atk is a tough nut to crack. I had wanted to try and be the one who figured it out, but it's just so time consuming with no guarantee of success. Right now I'm prioritizing data collecting on Live and getting hateplane done so players have shit to do. Resists (at least PvE resists) should be fairly accurate however; if you have evidence of significant inaccuracy I'd like to see it. If you click the link in my sig, you can browse the data I made publicly available. Particular to this issue are the PC vs PC damage logs and my custom parser lua scripts. Here are the direct links to their folders: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9w2l ... authuser=0 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9w2l ... authuser=0 The approach I was taking was to try and figure out how it worked on Live first, then try and figure out how it may have changed since the PoP era. Much of the mechanics of the game have remained unchanged since that time. A year ago Sony outlined how AC is calculated, which is a huge boon to emus trying to replicate the game. The post is here: https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/inde ... v2.210028/ I noticed that there doesn't seem to be different rules for PCs and NPCs in terms of mitigation, so that allows us to parse damage on PCs which have known AC values. I started making logs of PC vs PC damage to parse so I could try to find patterns. I haven't really started this yet, but I did write the beginnings of a script to parse logs with, which is meleedmg.lua in the above linked folder. Output looks like this: File: I:\Google Drive\Classic EverQuest Preservation\EQLive 2014 Sourced Data\Logs\PC vs PC Damage Logs\Lvl25War 8-24mhwpn nooffhand 595atk 85str 1501hs 130off 130dblatk VS lvl25War frontface 100wornAC 181AC 80agi 5def 1dge 1par 1rip.txt Combat statistics for attacker Me slash - Total Damage: 76335; Non-crits: 6898; Crits: 76; Misses: 700; Min Hit: 1; Max Hit: 19; Avg Hit: 10.9 Non-criticals: 1] 1: 533 (7.7%) 2] 2: 296 (4.2%) 3] 3: 161 (2.3%) 4] 4: 196 (2.8%) 5] 5: 181 (2.6%) 6] 6: 445 (6.4%) 7] 7: 295 (4.2%) 8] 8: 220 (3.1%) 9] 9: 288 (4.1%) 10] 10: 524 (7.5%) 11] 11: 319 (4.6%) 12] 12: 338 (4.8%) 13] 13: 276 (4%) 14] 14: 497 (7.2%) 15] 15: 293 (4.2%) 16] 16: 1295 (18.7%) 17] 17: 259 (3.7%) 18] 18: 251 (3.6%) 19] 19: 231 (3.3%) If you read old posts regarding melee damage, you'll hear about the 'modal hit' which is a damage value that occurs more often than the rest. In the above parse, it would be 16 damage. Some old research posts that I haven't verified as correct: https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/inde ... ge.205395/ http://beastlords.org/?topic=211.0 http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/s ... hp?t=16555 Steel warrior went down recently, and it looks like the wayback machine didn't capture all the the important threads. I saved some of them to my disk, which I make available on my google drive here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9w2l ... authuser=0 It's also worth noting that Sony's AC post mentioned that 'most' NPCs have 600 AC. This is significant because it allows us to know a value of one of the variables involved. If parses are done on many NPCs and they end up mitigating the same, then they likely have 600 AC. We can then parse them wearing different atk values and see how damage output changes. So what needs to be done is to create a mountain of logs with as many known variables as possible at different values of atk, AC, weapon skill, and weapon damages then parse those logs looking for patterns. Any models we come up with or find in old threads can then be tested against this data.
One small thing I take away from the above message, the most NPC have 600ac part. Does that mean they also have 600 on our server? If I submitted logs of my Monk attacking a mob several thousand times with annotated attack ratings, this would help I imagine?
No, our server has much more variable AC values for NPCs, and our algorithms are very different anyway so even if they had the same AC, damage numbers would be different. I suspect that when Sony says 'most NPCs have 600 AC' that it may mean from like PoP onward. Keep in mind that to them, PoP is super old. I would mostly parse on PoP NPCs. Luclin NPCs generally have a reputation of having high AC. If anybody is seriously interested in data collecting on Live, I can powerlevel them up some characters on the Test server. (which grants free gold status) Just please don't take me up on this unless you seriously intend to put in some work.
Figuring out AC is not something anybody can do. I'm not even sure I can do it. If you want to do something brainless but time consuming, then do all the steps to trigger the 10 ring war on Test, then contact me before you start it so I can video record it. There may be other events that require a great deal of preparation that I could document as well. Be sure to save a log of the entire process. If anybody is interested in recording game video, I can teach them, it's not hard. If somebody doesn't trigger the war for me, it's not going to get done because I have a billion things to do.
I'll look into getting the ring war triggered. Will need to read up but it's something I can do I hope.
Which server would you be looking into triggering the Coldain Ring War? I still have some characters over on Live.
I suspect Test, you can get a lot more for free over there. I have a 65 pally I may think about transferring and exping over there, unless someone has an account I can play on. Getting really accurate information on the 10th ring war before servers poof is really key for the emu community. Uhh yeah, if someone has a char they would be cool with letting me play, send a PM please.
We have done a lot of them on test. Get your turn ins ready on a regular server. Then do /testcopy. Run war on test. Then do it often as you want. Haynar
I have a theory on AC. It starts with parses. Anyone who wants to help can. I will post all of my findings here. Starting parses are at level 1. Two players in the arena. Doing at various AC levels. No heroic stats. Since this is mitigation tests, i need info pertaining to the tests. All weapons must be 10 dmg or greater. So no monks without a 10 dmg weap in both hands, or use a 2h. Info needed for parses. Attacker. Class. Level. Race. Str. Offensive skill level. Skill level for weapon used. Using a 10 dmg weap puts u at the cap, and gives you a good di distribution. It will have hits at 1-20. Use only basic gear. Ones that dont give extra stats other than the ordinary str, sta, agi, hp, mana and such. Defender. Class. Level. Race. Agi. Defensive skill. Total AC on gear, by adding up individual pieces. Not displayed AC. I need to know if defender has a shield. And the ac of the shield. Include the shield in the total of the worn ac calcs. But i need sheild ac seperate for softcap calcs. These are all 1 vs 1 pvp to start. So all stats can be controlled. I then need for a given parse, how many hits were at the different values 1-20. More is better. If you can have at least 100 hits in the lowest hit, that is better statistically speaking. Thanks to anyone who wants to help. Haynar
It should cap the damage as if using a 10 dmg wep. I cannot confirm that though. If you want to wait, i will do comparisons with 10 dmg and higher weps. H
The older clients actually have the server ac function in it (the softcaps should never be executed in normal operation, but it's still there, so you can make it return the server side number if you know what you are doing ) ... So with some analysis here are the AC softcaps (and hardcaps!) and overcap returns for PoP if anyone else is interested (I already shared it with the dev team ) The dev post in the AC vs ACv2 thread is still relevant, the other stuff basically hasn't changed. (at least with the quick looking over them I did) Code: [ Only registered users can see the bbcode. Click Here To Register... ] Poor monks
That's pretty cool. How do defensive AAs affect the formula? I don't see a number for them. I always wondered if I had hit the cap on my old shaman. Also, some of those caps are pretty surprising. Rogues and monks got hosed. It almost seems like monk and caster numbers got switched. I guess they got better evasive stats to make up for it. The difference between chain classes and silk classes is much smaller than I would have thought.
I would imagine that AAs have a separate logic that they run through post the basic AC > attacker forumla, many AAs will multiply or divide these results based on the AA mods. The real magic is to divine how the basic formula works and worry about modifying for AAs once we get there. I would imagine that the basic DMG formula gets modified outside the base calculation ratio for level adjustments, AC, combat skills etc...
Combat Stability (Innate Defense) and Physical Enhancement (does other things too) increase the softcap. Combat Agility (Lightning Reflexes) and Physical Enhancement (does other things too) increase the "avoidance AC" that the dev post in the AC vs ACv2 thread talks about. Those two things are pretty well understood. EDIT: It looks like monks got switched back to 350 at some point, but the Mac client still have them at 315
