Chiming in in the spirit of constructive discussion here! So the main concerns from the two camps here seem to be 1) wanting the freedom to raid any day of the week, and 2) not having another guilds decision to raid later in the week reduce the number of spawns in a given time period (year?) for everyone else on the server. I don't know if the devs would be on board with this sort of thing but how bout something like this: Example: Rotation stays in tact. Getting in on the rotation TBD. All raid mobs respawn Friday night at say 9 PM (pick your time zone). Server announcement, "mobs up enjoy!" Guilds have 1 week to kill their mobs. If they decide to do it later in the week it doesn't adversely affect anyone else. Mobs that are left up until 5 PM the following friday become FFA until they despawn at 8:30PM. Server announcement at 5 PM, "Leftovers now FFA!" This would let everyone have their cake and eat it too. A little bit of competition for those that seek it to clean up the weeks spawns from 5-8:30 on friday nights. Guilds can plan their raids for any night of the week. The spawn time could even be increased to 8 days so that the competition day rotates to every day of the week over time. No one should be worried about mobs being left up by another guild for any amount of time. And no one should be denied spawns by people more or less active. Would people be interested in this sort of thing? Would this be out of line with what the dev's vision for the server or too burdensome to implement?
Any forced spawning outside of the current database will likely be met with a big no from Rob. It is actually quite a stretch for us that we reduced the variance to 1 hour. Anything else would consider this a custom server and doubtful it would be accepted. Lol thanks for pointing out a perm setting I forgot
The issue that Cerebro is getting at is fairly simple, and, from what I can tell, has the support of two out of the three major guilds. If guilds have a full week to kill a dragon and choose to kill it on the last day of their week, the dragon will then not respawn for an additional seven days, at which point all guilds will be at the mercy of any guild choosing to delay killing something on a week long respawn until convenient for them. Destiny has already specified that it's intent is to raid Saturdays. What ends up happening is that each guild will be left with roughly one spawn per month of each dragon. Even if it does indeed take a year to get through to Kunark, that's a maximum of 12ish Naggy and Vox kills per guild (assuming no new guilds form). That would be ... not good. As it stands, I think we either need to strongly consider an auto pop on Friday nights, or movement towards "leave it up for 48 hours and its FFA." SD (appears) fine with this, and speaking for Austerity, we would also be in support. I would love to have a positive discussion with the other guild leaders about this issue. Perhaps we could discuss in game, or get a more private thread / PM going.
I have discussed some thoughts with both Rob and Zarwayne. Rob is waiting to get in touch with Zarwayne about the Friday dragon pop. My thoughts on this whole issue is this. The 7 day rotation length I consider the GM default. It is up to the guild leaders to talk and agree on something as one voice to the GMs to get around the default. What that means is, if agreements are made with an obvious form of rotation then the GM default gets lifted until problems arise and it gets reinstated. If the community wants better than what is offered you have to come together just as guilds did on AK and agree to something as a whole. If we keep fine tuning the GM enforced version, it gives no incentive for anyone to agree or work things out. Essentially relying on GMs to police it with community input. As we have seen, that is not really going too far. It is also not what was voted for nor what the GMs want. This will be a rotation centric server. It is a matter of how the community builds this portion of the server. I will setup a Guild leader only section in the forums when I can get to it now that we have a forum with these types of options. This will facilitate better communication.
Ok, next Friday the 27th manual pop of the dragons will start. The 7 day cycle remains until we hear otherwise from all leaders that there is an agreement.
So when you say Friday the 7th manual spawn of the dragons will start, does that mean every friday there after until we get an agreement? and thank you
Well if the spawn is 7 days, and the length of rotation is less then seven days, then an entire rotation could be devoid of dragoness for that guild? Am i getting this part correct?
So if the Friday repop of raid mobs will stay can Destiny and Starvald give their input on the OP idea? The r0tation is just about looking set at this point with only 3 guilds left standing. I'd propose we do away with open weeks. Make a thread for "attempting to get on a mobs r0tation sign up" in the thread a guild that say wants to attempt Vox signs up. first come first serve. It is the trial guilds responsibility to get in touch with an officer or GM from the guild who has the next spot for Vox kill. The trial guild then gets slotted in for the next spawn and gets a week from the spawn to attempt. If they kill it they make it on the r0t. If not they wait at least 1 full r0t before attempting again. After their trial kill or fail the r0t continues in the oerder that was there before they attempted and they go to the back of the line. Minimal or no GM assistance required.
Well I'm not sure I even understand Austerity's position since I'm guessing Cerebro is from Austerity as is Feret2000 as you are putting out different suggestions? I still don't see how whatever day the dragon is killed in one guild's rotation is going to make it spawn any quicker then 7 days. Even if the dragons are killed the moment they pop, whether that is Friday or another day, it will still be another 7 days till it spawns again. At the end of a year you still are only going to get 52 spawns if you have 4 guilds that will only be 13 shots at each dragon. I'm going to withhold any further comment until such time as Speedz establishes a guild leader only section. At that point I would be happy to discuss it with the leaders of Austerity and Starvald and whatever other guilds that exist at that time.
Working on the guild leader section now. I am thinking that if a guild wants a shot at the rotation, they need to make sure to speak up in the guild leader section. I will place all guild leads in a forum group that will have access to that section. So in effect, this provides a means for community agreements on entering rotations without involving the GMs as well
That all sounds great, and i applaud the efforts here. But for the sake of everything being fair, there is still the issue of a guild taking the week off for whatever reason and the dragon going to waste. I'm sure the guild taking the week off might be okay with it, but it's not fair to the other hungry guilds in the r0tation if the dragon sits up for 7 days un-killed. It's a waste of a rotation for that week. I know you all cringe at the words FFA (even tho basically every mob in game is FFA unless it's camped or on a rotation) It wouldn't hurt to make the dragon FFA to the other guilds, should the scheduled guild not have killed their Dragon by that Tue/Wed night - for whatever reason. Everyone cool with this? If you don't kill your dragon by Wed night.. it's FFA for the 24 hour period before repop. You have 6 days to kill it. 7 days might not be a sin to you, but even 6 days is a bit too much for some of us. Also getting a dragon on a silver platter every friday is a luxury. take note. It's always been that people have to keep track of spawn times for their raid mobs.
I think you just need to view a dragons in someone else's week as already gone and just leave it at that. Its not going to happen often that it's left up. Destiny sure isn't going to leave a mob up for a week if we have the power to kill it, and by your reaction I doubt you cats will either. I don't think it will really happen often enough to worry about once this rotation is in full swing. I know it's tempting to want all the loots but scrambling over other guilds dragons is just a a crazy use of your thought power and play time. I mean absolutely no offense oiwon, but I think you are concerned about something that will just hammer itself out really quick.
No it won't hammer itself out, nothing has hammered itself out. That's why the details are important. I'm not anymore loot hungry than you are, i've been looking for something that is fair for everybody. I think you need to view where i'm coming from as a very reasonable place. I appreciate your input, but a dragon going to waste is gonna happen and so why not make it available for other people to have some fun? Why does this bother you? It seems a fair compromise to me
I think we just disagree on this "fair" thing is all. I understand and appreciate your point, I just feel that what is most "fair" is that the dragons are divided up among the worthy to do with as they wish, even if that means not killing it. If a Dragon is left unkilled it is a blow to the guild that was unable or unwilling to kill it, not to anyone else. It is not a loss to you if it is not your rotation as it was never your dragon to begin with. Anything else is just scrambling for loot because people want it.with Friday spawns the only reason to care about someone else not killing their Dragon now is loot loot. That's my opinion.
Well it's only your opinion because you're not willing to scramble for loot as you say. Some people want dragons on a silver platter and let it rot for 7 days.. and that's fine, others would be open to the challenge of having to.. um scramble for loot.. How is that fair? This is Everquest, remember? This is really disturbing to me.. that in the rare case scenario that a dragon is left up.. and is going to rot.. some are not willing to compromise.
Personally I would be more than willing to compromise. Were I running our raids etc. And knew a Dragon would not be hit I would likely put an invitation, or post here suggesting an FFA. I would rather see a Dragon downed thAn not, regardless of who profits. This does not mean however that I am in favor of sweeping policy dictating a guilds timeframe while still within their own rotation.
I'm not trying to disrespect anyone's rotation, i'm trying to respect the entire rotation by making sure every dragon profits somebody instead of rotting.
Anyways i said my piece.. i'm not a guild leader.. but hope that what is fair for everybody in the r0tation is taken in to account!
Could compromise another way. If a guild leaves a dragon up for 7 days from its spawn they forfeit their next r0tation slot. To avoid this all they need to do is post sometime during the week letting the next guild in the rotation know they can go at it. If they try and fail thats another thing I'd say no penalty for that. but to get on the rotation and then just let mobs sit there if you cant muster the force all week is a little troublesome.
This recent and respectable conversation is exactly what I think the guilds need to have with their leaders, then the leaders need to bring their guild view to the table in the leader section. As long as it is rotational based, that is all we ask for. If a guild leader determines that the entire guild will be afk for their rotation and wants to give their dragon to FFA, that would be up to them. But it needs to come from the guild leaders and all should be able to agree in how it is done in there. (Still working on the GL section, it is created but I am working on like 5 things at once and trying to eat at the same time heh.)
