From http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2003-1.html Examples of bug language & corrections 1/28/03 Players should no longer get out of range message when trying to target a player on a horse just because the horse has moved a little (but is still in range). 1/28/03 Eye of Zomm and Stalking Probe cast from a horse will now be able to look up and down. 4/8/03 Trickster's Augmentation and Boon of the Garou can now be cast by characters on horseback. 5/14/03 Summoning a horse in bear form no longer causes you to lose the ability to cast spells for a while. 6/11/03 Drunken Riders - We fixed an odd bug that allowed people who were extremely drunk to cast spells without mana cost while on a horse. Yes, crazy bugs like that actually happen. From 2/24/03 This does not sound ( to me ) like a "bug" correction. The horse buff icon will no longer show up for characters using non- Luclin models. I know it is a LONG time until we get any horses at all, but I hope developers do not make us /dismount to interrupt a spell. Just because the Al'Kabor OldTimers CALLED the horse & model issues a "bug" didn't necessarily make it so.
Well, I felt it was one of those bugs they just let go since it wasn't gamebreaking and it meant they didn't need to implement old models for horses, saving dev time. There are many of these, IMO. The fact that plains pebbles reduced food consumption when placed in the same bag was a big one as well. They just didn't care to fix it, because again, it wasn't gamebreaking. Then one day that bug was fixed when someone implemented another feature relating to food/water consumption. With that said, it doesn't mean these 'bugs' shouldn't exist on TAK. I think when the devs make decisions on items like these, it will come down to 1) how easily it can be done compared to required features 2) is it gamebreaking to leave it in or take it out for the period that is enabled or overall From what I understand, they are putting in toggles for most of questionable features/bugs. Maybe when the server is nearing completion they can be revisited or voted upon?
I tend to think that the "horse bug" was a pretty distinctive feature of the state of the game for the 2+ year period between Luclin and LoY, and that eliminating it would be an unwise choice for a server seeking to recreate the early PoP experience, much less the Al'Kabor experience. (I don't want to go too far down the rabbit-hole of divining what SOE thought about the issue back in 2002, but I also think there's some evidence to support the interpretation that letting the "bug" stand for a couple of expansions was a conscious decision made to accommodate players who didn't want to switch over to the new models. That and the non-game-breaking nature of the bug distinguish it from some other long-running, more exploitable issues that were eventually fixed.). In any case, though, I imagine the devs may not be ready to make a decision on a feature that is still two expansions down the road.
What I recall immediately after Luclin was released was that there were many issues/complaints about the graphics "intensity" in general. Players which had been able to play on a truly bare bones computer (myself included) had instant issues upon logging into the SoL environment (getting the patch done took me almost 5 hours, but that was an entirely different issue). SoL quickly became a pretty hilarious title, because many players truly were SoL when it was released. I had grown quite attached (addicted probably a better word) to the game and all patches until then were no problem, but with SoL, I truly thought I would not be able to play anymore. I think that players that had really decent computers had no issues (or few to speak of), but casual basic desktop players were freaking out. I was using a Compaq 500mhz CPU with 128mb RAM and an 8mb intergrated graphics chip, no kidding... but before SoL it actually worked fine! So, there were many players that either couldn't or wouldn't use Luclin models. I both couldn't (because my computer could literally not handle them) and wouldn't (because I thought the were absolutely horrible). I quickly found that because I didn't use newer models, I also would never be able to use a horse. The day I learned that I could use my AoN to turn myself into a skellie and ride my horse was a great day indeed. Regardless of what camp you were in (unable to use Luclin models because your game became unplayable, or unwilling to use Luclin models because they were ugly), there were a huge number of players that would never be able to use horses. I assumed that the reason the horse icon appeared even with old models was that they wanted to give casters the med benefits even if they were unable to see an actual horse. I was a monk, so all I wanted was the run speed. I do seem to recall that casters did get the med benefits even with old models, but no one ever got the run speed benefit, even if the icon was present. Which does make you wonder, was the icon a mistake/bug, or to appease casters that wanted the med benefits of their very expensive clickie item, even if they weren't able to see the horse itself... if that were the case, I would've thought they'd give you fast runspeed at the same time. I truly believe that SoE had to come up with many workarounds after the SoL expansion, and that they really believed everyone would decide/want to use the new Luclin models so the horse thing wouldn't be a problem... it was a bad judgement call on their part. At the time, I don't think having horses unusable with old models was a marketing thing or any ploy to boost sales... it was just something SoE hadn't thought through very well (not uncommon). I also know for a fact that SoE was caught completely by surprise by the number of low-end PC users that were playing the game at that time (there were full articles written about it). Initially, SoE said that some players might just have to go out and buy nicer PC's to play, but it created such an uproar that within about a week, I was able to play on my crappy old Compaq again. They were fixing things fast and furiously so the low-end guys could log in again. (note: not trying to derail for a new vs. old models thread here, I realize everyone has their own views on that... no need to resurrect that battle )
Most game companies back then tested their new products, expansions, etc... on the base platform that the game is supposed to support. I think Sony made a major error in judgement by not raising the stats on the base platform needed to run the SoL xpac. I'm positive that if they tested SoL on the minimum spec computer, many of the issues with the memory hungry xpac could have been fixed before release. Granted those were the days when most people bought games mostly according to the minimum spec the product would support, unless you were some kind of uber computer user or hyper gamer with a state of the art gaming computer. Upgrading computers back then was very costly compared to the performance boost the upgrades would provide. That being said, I think that our version of SoL should continue to support peeps who insist on using old models and want to use a horse as well. I'm not sure of exactly which 'horse bugs' we should keep, but I believe we should provide some kind of option for the old model crowd.
Thanks Torven ( and all the developers ! ). I can live without the run speed modification that the more expensive horses gave . ( not available unless luclin models turned on )
I agree that people getting the benefits of horses with old models, yes, especially the mana regen. It was like that for a very long time on their test server without being patched.
Well, I really hate Luclin models and would love to be able to hang onto old models (esp for performance reasons on my toaster), but I don't necessarily want to be exploiting and having a 10k horse running at bard speed because of my old models, with absolutely no incentive to get a nicer horse. If only there were some way that the horsie graphic could display with old models on, and not have exploit speed - that would be ideal.
No No With no horse model showing, even the most bestest horse ran at brown rope bridle speed. ( if NONE of the luclin models, or the elementals, or the horses were enabled ) This I know, 'cause I had one of the fancy bridles from Seru, and never used it for the bard speed. Starsha had a beast of a horse. Always left me in the dust !
Someone should create horse replacements using the old models. Of course, its not something that could be distributed via this site, but still, would be neat.
Big movie copyright is a hard beast to overcome they don't have the $$ to licence broomsticks from harry potter at daybreak at the moment. Or play lawyer dick battles.
Actually new elementals and horses are BUNDLED - you have to have both on. I really hate new elementals more than any other Luclin graphic and I am not looking forward to losing the blob men. If there were, somehow, a way to separate the two and/or have old models on horses - that would be a dream come true.
100% /agree here... the original elementals are huge nostalgia for me... love those blob men. I'll never switch to Luclin models, just couldn't live with that. I'd go so far to say that if old models were eliminated, I would have to quit playing... sounds radical, but quite true. I know old models won't be eliminated, just sayin. However, my issue is completely with the anatomy of the Luclin models, if someone came along and could keep the exact same proportions and style of the old models and make them just a bit smoother (less faceted), that I could live with. Whichever artist designed the fundamental models for Verant at the time was definitely on the right path, even if it was 1999 technology. I thought that on Live servers they did eventually get old models to work on horses, but I could be wrong on that. As long as I had my AoN and skelly form, I was gtg on my chain horse. Being a monk, I definitely would want the runspeed effect, but the starting and stopping aspect to the horse did kinda negate the need for the chain horse... seem to recall I finally just banked my chain bridle and just kept SoE or FoE on myself whenever possible. Best idea I ever heard is that there should have been a skeletal horse model (i.e. the ones in TT's lair, PoNb) available to the ShadowKnights and Necromancers, or AoN skelly-form players... that would be quite impressive. I would have loved it if my AoN would've turned my horse into a skeleton also
Exactly! The blob-men, although crude, were what I imagined an elemental to resemble. An amalgam of whatever element they were born of. The purest form of an element made manifest probably shouldn't have facial features and it DEFINITELY shouldn't have god damned abs. lol
I still prefer the classic skeleton models, played a epic necro for years as it was my my first toon from 1998-2003 era. I too will never use the Luclin models, I just prefer the original set. Best,
Yeah, classic skeletons were great... I forget precisely when they changed them (think it was a random patch, and not expansion though). I do clearly remember logging in one day and immediately wondering why skeletons had changed. It was unfortunate. Even their movement animations were better, I thought.
It usually depends when you started which set you like. I started post Luclin and prefer the Luclin models. Skellies are the exception though. Loved the older ones, their animations seemed more accurate to me. Oh, and whenever they changed lions, can't remember if it was post PoP though, but that was a horrible 'upgrade'.
Lol, oh boy. This thread actually makes me a little bit sad! I'm the odd duck here I suppose, all of my RL friends and I absolutely loved (and still love) the Luclin models. I'm actually with you guys on the elemental pets though, they're way cooler than the Luclin models are. After reading Yinn's words about leaving because of it I laughed out loud because i wince every time i see my gnome in old mode compared to his "normal" one. Which makes it very apparent now that that is how a lot of players see me, sigh. I definitely like the idea of having a choice though. When raiding with lots of people I would typically turn off every model to help frame rate, except for gnomes, because I can't stand seeing him like that, haha. One of the funny things about this is that I can usually tell when someone uses old models because they have the "default" look. I like the option to have both though, I definitely respect everyone's opinions on which look better to them. Yinn we definitely see through different eyes, a lot of the old compared to the new are horrid to me
Agreed! I just felt the original models were more menacing looking, had an edge to them. Being a necro at that time this played a bit role in my persona as a dark elf. I too felt the anime flowed nicer, which probably technically are the same but just presented nicer with the classic asset. Best,
I've seen you many times Khorpus, you look great in old gnome form! Having that choice is a huge deal, and a huge plus. I recall right after the SoL patch, I logged into the character select screen, saw Yinn, and freaked out... I didn't realize old models were still an option and thought I'd have to see that all the time. Talk about sad At that point, I seriously asked myself if I would've kept playing if I couldn't have gone back to classic models, that's where that train of thought came from. But, I agree 100% Khorpus, everyone has a different view and Mokli is absolutely correct, I think it has a lot to do with what you started with. I think it's very cool that we can see each other in the view we prefer (what if that were an option in RL ). I've thought a few times about people seeing me in Luclin model and it makes me cringe... but I'm sure it doesn't make them cringe, so that's cool (at least I hope they don't cringe when they see me!)
One of the events on PC live years ago (I believe april fools) changed everyone into a stick figure. It was incredible for reducing raid lag. Some players saved the file and actually continued to use it for a while (until it broke) for raiding. You just had to replace the file after you patched, before you logged in. I wonder if that would work here. I forget when that was introduced.
