We appreciate the effort speedz, will be good to have a place for the leaders to bang this stuff out. Happy this thread existed in meantime as a place for the community to bounce ideas off each other. Even ferocious internet troll fests can yield worthwhile info or ideas sometimes!
Is it destiny's intention to only raid on weekends or am I misinformed on that? Just trying to get an idea or what would work for you guys. If at the end of all of this it just ends up being a guild 1, guild 2, guild 3 r0tation with no FFA and 7 day window to down a mob from spawn time I don't think that would be the end of the world. If destiny lets the first naggy be up til saturday morning then downs him and every guild there after downs him promptly on saturday/sunday then the spawns should stay on the weekend for the forseeable future. At least for a few months being pushed back maybe 30-60 minutes a spawn +/- variance. So as I see it even if we went with that method destiny might leave a dragon up til the weekend a couple times a year which at worst would result in 1 or maybe 2 less pops per guild per year. Significant and undesirable but without a set weekly respawn (or maybe GMs would just do a friday repop once in a while to help keep spawns on weekends?) I'm not sure what else could be done to accomodate destiny's schedule and the desire to not let dragons sit up for a week at a time. Would Destiny and Starvald be willing to make a genetlemen's agreement to prompty kill dragons once they start spawning on weekends to keep the spawns there? That would minimize the dragons being left up thing at least until more content is released. With only one dragon for a guild to kill should be manageable specially with 7 days notice to get your guild ready.
I think a guild leaders section is a great idea. But could you keep it read only to everyone else? That way we can discuss anything that comes up.
It will be read/write to only the guild leaders at first. It is up to the guild leaders to convey topics back and forth. There are some things among leadership that should be only for leadership at times. If they all want it read only to all, then I would consider it.
Oiwon. I'm responding to this only because we have had many calm, reasonable and in my mind productive discussions in game, despite the fact that we disagree. I know that you are not the guild leader of Starvald but of course your opinion as to what is fair is just as important as mine. One of the reasons for Speedz creating the guild leader section will be to reduce the time and need to have these discussions which I am sure once we move past the conversation on rotations will move to another topic. I agree that you should make your thoughts known to the guild leader of Starvald and then he (or she) will take your opinions into consideration when he discusses it with the other leader. Same should apply for Destiny, Austerity and other guilds as well. Fair as defined is "what is in accordance with the rules or standards" or "without cheating or trying to gain unjust advantage". I would hope from our discussions you know that I'm not a cheater nor trying to take advantage of anyone. That all said, I have to agree with much of what Tuluvien says. Once a guild is on the rotation the dragon is theirs to do what they see fit with it. Whether that means to kill it, let it live or even bring it treats of gnome meat By anyone letting it sit, it does not take anything away from anyone. You just do not "gain" more. I don't think that is unfair which is defined as "not following the rules" or "unkind, inconsiderate or unreasonable" or "not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality or justice". If you get to kill your dragon during your turn and then get an opportunity to kill it again during our turn, how is that equal? I have no illusions I will change your opinion. I'd just much rather kill a few gnomes then debate it seemingly endlessly here.
Let me preface this post by saying it in no way intends to be antagonistic. People have asked me in private if these rotation suggestions are what I want or otherwise have my 'stamp of approval'. Posts on this topic have claimed that 'the devs want it this way.' I just want to make my stance clear on this issue, lest people get the wrong impression of me. I am an ex-hardcore raider from the PC version of the game, and to me competition and drama are part of the raid game. So no, personally speaking, I do not like GM mandated rotations and prefer a more hands-off approach when it comes to GM involvement. I would like to see something implemented to prevent a p99-like situation, but the current suggestions are way beyond what I want personally want to implement were I to run a server. That said, this is basically Speedz's and Rob's server and they can do as they will with it. However I just want to be clear that it's their call, not mine; I'm here to preserve the game before Sony completely destroys it, not run a server. I've tried to use my influence on some issues (like pet pulling) to prevent what I thought were terrible gameplay-killing additions to the server, but in this case it's more subjective. I'm not trying to suggest that there is anything 'wrong' with rotations, it's just not what I personally would choose to play in, given the choice.
I'm confused about a few things. Maybe this information is somewhere on the boards if I look far enough but... *Why* are we limiting ourselves to decisions SOE made a great many years ago? I've always thought EQ was a great game, but there were a few things I disagreed with, and one of them was the artificial scarcity that SOE thought was important. Why use a 7-day timer? If it's just a database change, can't it be a 3-day timer? Maybe the database is shared by other servers, so then I can understand. So consider this ignorance on my part. But if the database is specific to us, then it can contain anything we want. EQ should not be *easy*, but I never liked SOE's decision that *my* advancement through the game should depend on someone else *not* advancing. If I wanted to play competitively, I'd play on a PvP server. I wouldn't want the dragons on a 1-hour timer. I guess I wouldn't want any particular guild to kill the dragons night after night, either. But 7-days is taking it to an extreme. Just my opinion.
I think because the developers here want to replicate the game as it was on Al'Kabor as close as possible.
There shouldnt be any back room areas, sure leave it so only the leaders can post, but all should be able to read the section, if they want to conduct things in private, there are private messages here, teamspeak etc channel to join, why keep 99% of the server out of the loop on how things got determined and how the guild leaders came to the decisions they came to? Just my opinion, your server, I just play here.
If you aren't in a raiding guild then raiding rotations are of little import. If you are then your guild leader will, I'm sure, post pertinent info on your guilds website. What's with the sense of entitlement here?
I don't see much compromise from anyone at this point I see 'our way or the highway'. And I've stuck up for this server and the way it's ran allot. Possibly more than anyone. I want this server to be like AK too.. but.. If ur not in the rotation should u even have a say so on the details to that rotation? Well, the answer here is yes. Enjoy your silver platter silver spoon dragons. And we will too, because apparently there is no other choice but to fall in line to your ideas of what is fair and fun for everyone. Even tho u havent even killed one yet, oh, and you're only like lvl 35. Lol If you want to kill gnomes go kill gnomes. But don't tell me how to eat my Cheerios. There's 2 dragons and 2 guilds in rotation for Nag and Only 1 for vox right? Do you have any idea where I'm coming from here??? What's even going on here? Go kill Nag and Vox and then come back and be an equal. I'm sure it wont be that hard for your group.. but at least you will have some credibility in discussing the matters of a rotation that by rights shouldnt currently involve you. Don't say this is Ak because it's not. You won't give an inch, and you're toying with things that have nothing to do with u. I see Austerity coming up with lots of suggestions and alternatives. Bravo, that's constructive. Great work guys. I'm sure this will rub some people the wrong way, so for that I'm sorry because many of you are my friends. But Some things just have to be said.
Trisi as for your point about us wanting a piece of a dragon that you have no intention of killing, so what? If you aren't gonna kill it who cares if someone else does? Only you and your peeps. Who cares!?!!? Throw it to the wind if you're not gonna kill it! It's not your precious. I'm not asking for the sun and the moon here.
I would like to thank Speedz for creating a guild leader only forum. It will be a space where the GLs can discuss issues and not have posts from others to confuse the issue with the opinions and ideas. Maybe I am a little slow, but I have found it extremely difficult to follow the plethera of ideas here. Additionally, it seems there is also flaming here. Hopefully, the guildleaders only forum will be troll and flame free. Again, thank you Speedz.
You guys are meanies, I'm taking my barbies and going back home. Destiny has decreed that the Dragon is to stay up the entire time of our appointed rotation, just to cheese the trolls
Protect and preserve the dragons! They will not be around forever. What a shame it would be to kill them EVERY week.
No, you are just asking to continue whipping a long dead horse. So what if the dragon stays up until the guild gets around to killing it? Are you upset that you can't batphone kill the dragons while it's some other guild's rotation? Are you going to die from seeing the dragon be up for longer than you think it should? I'm sorry your point of view lost the vote, but could you please just give it a rest? Stop trolling and get with the program, if you do it will be a lot easier for you to negotiate a compromise. A number of compromises to the initial guild rotation proposition have been brought forward, and some have been implemented. Let the GMs and the community do the work. Let the guilds gear up as they voted to, and be patient while the raid cores get up to level 50. Put down the batphone and go catch up with your neighbor while the server develops. Remember that there are lots of people with busy lives that want to raid just as badly as you do. Relax and eventually the server will find it's balance and we'll all get these raid mobs killed in an orderly fashion that is fair to all players on the server, not just the ones with batphones.
Oiwon-- I see where you are coming from. And you raise some fair points. Yes, I am in Destiny, and no it doesn't make sense to me that a dragon would be left undisturbed the entire week. Those are details that I am sure will get worked out. But, remember, Starvald's position is already being pushed forward in the guild leader forum. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.
I think what you are forgetting here, is that Everquest was never an "everybody is equal" game. Game spawns are not the property of any individual guild, and it would take little to no effort of any of the three major guilds - at this point - to cockblock other guilds from those spawns. Likewise, if one does not intend to satisfy the terms of the rotation by either attempting or completing an assigned encounter, then it should definitely be made available for another guild, either the next on the rotation - which makes the most sense to me - or offered up to the masses as a FFA. The days of getting babysat by GMs are just about over; I would use the time wisely to ensure one's own guild was properly situated and reputated to ensure continued relevancy or consideration. Regards, Gurgy
heat just got turned up I guess... Here's what I would say, not everyone has the same view of what constitutes fair, so a community driven rotation is going to mean different things to different people. If you are primarily interested in seeing your characters grow without having any contested raids (a purely rotational system), keep in mind that some people do enjoy the sandbox aspects of Everquest. They do like a little raid drama, and maybe some organizational racing. Those people are part of our community too, and they don't deserve to have their voices immediately disparaged because the "community" has already decided on a pure rotation. That's actually not the case, as the community decided that it wanted to run the rotation, rather than have the GM's run it. With that in mind, there could theoretically be changes to the "purely rotational" system the GMs have set up thus far. I think it would be beneficial to everyone if we got a better understanding of what "everyone" wants before we decide how things are gonna be down the line.
Go look it up. What? Guilds dictate the community; showing your ass on the forums neither furthers your cause or that of those which you represent by being under their tag: move aside kiddo.
