Snipping this - I think its a decent summary of an optimistic scenario. It seems there is some hype for a single box server, but the environment it will create would be anathema to the way I enjoy the game. Rotations make raiding stable and bearable, and remove 99% of the drama from bonking orcs on the computer. It would be interesting to see play out from a distance I suppose. Personally I'd be much more intrigued by a server that intended to move towards future expansions with a TAKP-esque level of accuracy and attention to detail. Playable Frogloks, more AA's and new content sounds like fun to me!
Please, please do this. Found out about TAKP on the P99 forums specifically because of your post with the possibility of this happening. I really want to play on the server you're proposing here, and I'm certain I'm not alone!
Rimi's right that any server will suck without a critical mass of players, regardless of the ruleset. Which, let's be honest, is probably the fate of most of the spin-offs that will fork TAKP's code. TAKP itself seems safe-ish for a while since so many of us have already invested so much time in these characters. Beyond that, it'll take more than a different box limit or toggling some kite/PBAE rules or whatever to attract a big/fun population. Smart, trustworthy devs who are in it for the long haul. Interesting, well-tuned content beyond TAKP's. The rest will follow.
We need a server that is takp, but with frogloks enabled. And we have to defeat Quarm with a raid of only frogloks.
I believe that my wife and I have an almost unique perspective on playing here. When we started here in 2016, we decided to duo as SK/Sham setup. We didn't really want to box, and since we could play together we didn't feel the need to. The server pop 7 years ago did allow us to join groups sometimes, but overall we worked our way up into our 40s as a duo. When our kids got a bit older though, they wanted to try the game. Speedz was great about it when we asked for IP exemption, and was very encouraging and helpful as we set up accounts for our kids and got started with what we like to call a Ready Made Group(TM). At that point, we were playing with our 4 kids a few times per week, and the wife and I would 3 box our own group otherwise. Because our primary goal was to enjoy the game with our kids, we did not jump into the raiding game, and mostly played together as a family running 1 character each as a full group, or maybe with 1 or 2 of us boxing an extra character if a couple of our kids didn't want to play on any given session. Thus, our experience here has been playing with our 4 kids for the most part... that is, with 4 other real people in one group. So much fun, and since grouping was our favorite part of the game on the Zeb server back in our EQ Live days, for us it was the best of both worlds. We often had real players to group with, but had the option to 2 box or 3 box when our regular team couldn't play or didn't want to. We didn't miss the endgame, because we were PLAYING the game at a pace that suited us just fine, and there is a lot of world to play in here outside of the raid experience. In fairness, our situation was unusual given that 6 people live in our household. We also did not have to resort to typing messages to one another or setting up voice chat through some app since we were all playing in the same room. All that being said, there is absolutely nothing stopping people on this server from playing the group game together apart from play times and a willingness to set aside a day (or days) to meet up with 5 other players here and play as a group. Obviously, 6 players in the same time zone or similar play times would be optimal. The group could be high level characters in Time gear, or it could be starting out naked in some newby zone with no twinkage. With a little bit of cooperation and coordination, 6 players absolutely can make a Friday Night Fight Night group, or whatever. There are a couple things set against that paradigm. Some players, maybe many players, played the heck out of the Norrath before the game moved on to Luclin and PoP and beyond, and may have no interest in playing through the older content at all. For them, raiding and the chase for BIS gear, gearing alts, farming, etc. is where its at, and I can understand that. No harm, no foul. Still, nothing is stopping people from getting 5 other like-minded players to group up once a week or twice a month as a single box group apart from RL time commitments/responsibilities, guild/raid commitments, and the willingness of 6 people to meet up on any given morning, afternoon, or evening. All that being said, the 800 pound gorilla in the room in terms of a 1 box server is the need for a good size server population. When my wife and I played on ZEB from 2000-2004 or so, we never had a lot of problems finding groups, either together or separately. The game was alive back then. There weren't always groups to be had in every zone, but round the clock there were often other real players to group up with. It certainly helped that I mained a Wiz and she mained a Dru; however, playing porting classes in the heyday of the game showed us that getting around back then was usually a matter of how much someone was willing to "tip" to get ported to the zone they wanted to play in, where they could find a group. Again, it was a matter of server population, and a primarily east coast (or west coast, etc.) server would have time periods where much of the server pop was offline sleeping and thus it was harder to get around (pre-PoP) or find a group. Of course, that is what necro or bard alts were for, but I digress. I think some of the criticism of this server, particularly QOL issues and the limitations of the client, are a large reason this server has a low population. Nostalgia for hard core "old school" EQ is fine I suppose (I have the same nostalgia, to a certain point); however it is my opinion that retaining the limitations of the technology of the era being emulated has hamstrung the server to a certain point. I understand that later iterations of the game brought with it a fair amount of hand holding and made the game too easy. I don't even recognize modern day EQ, which is why the wife and I don't play there. That being said, old EQ was not all it was chalked up to be either, and this shows in the limitations of the client here. The technology at the time, along with Verant/Sony's willingness to meet player demand for a better interface, less downtime, fewer clicks to accomplish things in game (I mean Trade Skilling in this era? Between the time needed and the carpal tunnel... Hard Pass! I won't do it because I have better things to do with my time), better travel options, fewer stupid things like NPCs eating quest items (that took hours/days/weeks to get) and overall more time playing and less time doing menial in-game chores, is not really something that ought to be emulated IMO. I love the game world EQ represents, because it is so closely tied to the Dungeons & Dragons I grew up playing, but I frankly do not miss a lot of the retro "features" this server operates under in a quest for "in era nostalgia." That is not a knock on the client per se, given what it is. TAKP has come a long way in terms of stability, load and zone times, and crashing is not very frequent. The game works well, and for what it is, the client works very well. It just can't do much to alleviate the need to SAVE TIME now that most of us are old and no longer in highschool or college and don't have the time to fart around with such archaic road blocks. The other factor here that is a bigger gorilla in the room than the client limitations is the fact that EQ is an old game, and even if ALL of the bells and whistles were added from whatever client was desired, the fact of the matter is that gaming has mostly moved on. EQ is still a fun game, just like a lot of old games are still fun to play. That being said, the demographic for all things EQ is a shrinking one, and server population numbers are reflective of that. Further, I think it would have to be admitted by staff and most of the old Mac players who reunited here that the server caters to a certain crowd and nostalgia; those who played on EQ Mac and want to emulate that server. Saying that does not in any way mean that the server population here is insular or unfriendly; indeed, it is a very friendly server, for those who grok what it is and can live with the era that is being emulated. There really is an overwhelming ethic here among most players to have a good time and help one another out. My wife and I would not have played EQ with our kids on P99. IMO P99 hit the market at just the right time, and their "original" era setup caught its intended nostalgia demographic such that it will probably be hard for other emulated server to ever rival, particularly given the shrinking player base that a 24 year old game appeals to. That doesn't take away from TAKP in the least. Its a great era to play in (even with some of the terrible client limitations that keep other players away), the staff here are great people, the game runs well, the server population here is (mostly) very friendly, and its a pretty darn good facsimile of the game in the era it emulates. Which is why we've been here for 7 years, and haven't complained much at all. Still, realistically, a single box server needs a good size population to be viable, OR players dedicated to cooperate and coordinate play times to make single boxing viable. On Zeb server from 2000-2004, my wife and I could usually get a group because there were a lot of players playing then, we had friends in game and a good guild, and when it was slow we would duo or solo. I don't think most emulated servers will ever see those numbers. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong. /shrug One thing I find odd here is the number of people who start here and then keep asking for the server to change. The server CLEARLY caters to the EQ Mac players who came here when their Live EQ server was shut down. While the server may not be as "Akkurate" as it claims or ought to be, for the most part it emulates what it says it does on its homepage, the wiki, the forums, and so on.... an era of EQ that was played on the EQ Mac time-locked server that drew back many of its old players. Let the server be what it was intended to be, and either enjoy it or move on... Still, nothing I've said takes away from the fact that my wife and I played EQ here with our 4 kids for years and had a lot of fun doing it. And we didn't have to raid or otherwise chase the moon to have that fun. YMMV!
That post about takp releasing it's source code and the possibility of a 1 box server being made with it? That post was mine.
What are the cons of making a 1-box and 2-box server as part of the server select screen and let it go on auto pilot? Whomever decides to play on there, good for them. I guess it could be fun to jump on every now and then to see what's going on but keeping the TAKP server as the main interest point. I don't have a background in running a server so pardon me if I sound basic with the idea.
Then yep that's what drew me over to takp. I know I'm not alone on p99 with wanting something past velious that (hopefully) shares the same success that p99 green currently has. I agree, population makes this work, and I think the interest is there.
just remove kite limit and increase boxing, but for different reason, let people 6 box but in a different way, you can have any toon online in PoK, PoT or Nexus or Bazaar all the time day, but only 3 of them active in a zone that is none of the latter
I don't think, changing number of boxing can make TAKP any better than it already is. Considering population, TAKP 3-boxing is best possible solution. We are usually limited by free time and chance to play on it's own without waiting and looking for group is a deal maker. And you can still group, all you want, if there is someone available. This is just best possible balance IMO. So, what would make some other server better, that would bring in enough players, that would stay there for long term? In my opinion, to really make a difference and successful server, best route would be, if this is even possible, I don't understand client/server limitations, to create a NON Akkurate TAKP, where focus would be on fixing things that are broken and were not fixed in original TAKP, but it would make sense to fix it, also implementing some QOL and on top of all, over time adding some new fun, crazy content, (one raid that would not be on rotation, but a cut throat race to the boss for example, etc...) since server would not be bound to being akkurate and since doing something new is easier to implement than recreating old content. But I would keep most what TAKP has, 3-boxing etc... Basically, in one sentence, making new TAKP, what it could be, if they would keep working on it with addition of some crazy new stuff, in the future, limited only by creator's imagination and maybe also inspired by suggestions from the community. (no new levels of course, just some fun crazy new zones) (Is this even possible or would be infringement of agreement that is in place to play old EQ?!? )
https://unixgeek.com/eqemu.html This guy graphs EQEMU server populations over time. We have a widget on the forums that displays 1, 2, and 3 box distributions among the players actively logged in (excluding trader accounts). I'd love to see a graph of how much boxing happens on this server. Because every single time I've looked at the numbers, there are more single boxers by almost double that of 2 or 3 boxers. I know my sample is biased cause I'm only ever looking at it during off peak hours, and I'm sure that raiding is a very different distribution. For my personal anecdote, I won't play on a single box server. It may make you sad, but it's true. It's not because I don't share your fantasy of enjoying that play style, I just know that I don't have the time and schedule available to me to make progress as a single box player. If I only have an hour to play, and it takes 20-30 minutes to find a group and get into a camp and get started on the xp grind, I'll never do it. Being able to 3 box means that I'm able to make efficient use of my play time. As a player, I share very little of Secret's view of the game. He says it's a chat game with some D&D stuff, and I play the game for precisely the opposite reasons. It's a D&D game where I occasionally chat with people. Whether it's designed that way or not, that's the game I want to play. And 3 boxing TAKP gives me more of that than any other MMO or Single player RPG game that I've tried.
Exactly this. I'm not here to chat or socialize. It's a fantasy game, where sometimes I interact with people, if I want to/have to. I'd never restart on a single box server, unless I had real life friends doing the same. My playtimes are far too short and varied to be spending time looking for groups. I'd just end up playing a soloing class anyway, out of convenience.
I think it basically boils down to these things: - People want to play the game their own way. What's fun for people varies among people. Some people have beaten the game a million ways already, for others it's their first max level character; different points in their journey. - Very rarely will you find two people who agree on all the details of how to play the game. Some people tradeskill and mule everything, others leave it on the corpse. Some use GINA, some don't. Some want to pet tank, some want to play a tank, etc, etc. Ask enough questions and you'll find something that is very dear to one person and hated by the other person, and this is one of the ways people start grudges/drama on this game. Some thrive on social drama stuff, others hate it and run away from it. - Nobody likes being told their way of playing isn't the right way, and certainly nobody likes being forced to play another person's way by technical means. - Single boxing, AoE exping, kiting, QoL stuff etc are all just things that some people like and others hate. So really the trick is the same as anywhere else in life - finding ways to get along with other people. At least that's how I would like to see it.
The only thing that bothers me about Everquest is people saying AoE instead of AE. We will never be friends Solar.
Omg. 4somes would be so crazy powerful compared to 3s. It'd be my chance to add a tank to my ench/cle/brd. But I'd probably add a mage instead... heh.
The important part about this view is I feel that the TAKP population that plays there is not the target audience - TAKP exists as a recreation of Al'Kabor, which is not a progression server. It's a home for hundreds of former EQMac players and any server would not be directly in competition with TAKP - It'd be its own fork. I disagree that the population would be as low as it's claimed; there has long been a desire for a 1-box PoP server, and has been for almost two decades now. But opinions are just that - not absolute. You should always play a game where you find it the most fun. TAKP will continue to exist for those who want EQMac as a home. The entire inspiration for contributing to the EQMac server was that I didn't want Al'Kabor players to forever lose their home, and I felt directly responsible for causing the initial shutdown. Those players find it fun, and I would not want TAKProject players to abandon their home. The secondary goal I will say that anyone who would want to play on my ruleset is welcome to do so, and I strongly encourage people to have fun in games - where ever that may be.
IMO singlebox is great if the population numbers are large enough. If the population numbers aren't large enough it becomes a horrible failure. Personally I don't see a big reason not to try though. Although this opinion is typical of the playerbase of p99, the takp playerbase is different and so my opinion is likely irrelevent. Realistically what I want to recreate for myself would be the memory of 2003 (and in 2003 multiboxing was both hard and rare). But I wouldn't mind some titanium style UI control. I've always loved p99, but it grew stale for me long ago because it just stopped like 30-50% through the progression of my favorite expansions. p99 devotees believe luclin ruined the game, but I myself actually liked the game just fine up until somewhere around gates/omens, iirc. TLDR: I mostly agree with `secrets`
I don't think a 1 box restricted server would do well, but shouldn't stop you from starting one. The playerbase needs to sustain a massive amount of humans to be fun. Look at P99, there are about 900 players on right now. That's relatively healthy. You are going to add two more expansions worth of zones on top of P99. On live during PoP, I remember there being around 2k players peak and that kinda felt healthy where I never needed to box. The main reasons why P99ers don't like TAKP are: 1) the client (no mousewheel, in era client) 2) you are allowed to box multiple toons at once (at least they claim this is a reason, I'm not so sure really though, I think its just being used as an excuse to have to not start over personally) "its not p99" is likely the real reason. 3) This is the best one, "PoK ruined EQ" - a TAKP clone won't solve this. TAKP has the gimick of being as close to in era as possible. Once you throw in some QoL and random things here and there. You can no longer call it in era, it becomes a custom server. Now TAKP is technically custom too, but its very mildly custom compared to all of the others out there for their chosen eras.
It's interesting to hear so many different perspectives. What I am seeing here is that we all love EverQuest but it's some specific detail or nitpick that some people consider important and others don't, and it's different details with each person. Are these details really that important? It's easy to dismiss if it's not your own detail, but it's a deal breaker if it is.
This community is heavily biased in favor of boxing. All the one box people quit or never showed up. I personally know several people (old EQ players; some of whom are Fires of Heaven guys) who have played here then quit because three boxing was too obnoxious for them to continue and my best EQ pal never gave this server a chance because of it. I myself have only played on here for maybe a couple of months of cumulative time because I really wanted a two box server, not three. (1 is preferable to 3 for me as well) I would also argue, even if there are not enough players to keep raid content farmed, that this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Al'Kabor had content not killed for years. What matters is enough players for single group content. Having unbeaten raid content just remains a carrot to aspire to one day instead of a big rush. When TAKP put up a poll in 2014 asking what the box limit should be, several people responded with three because of our low population, but wanted it reduced later after we gained more users, not realizing how unrealistic that would be. Two narrowly lost to three. More than a few people ended up regretting their vote.
The problem with asking people what they want is that you'll get as many opinions as there are people here (just reread this thread). Everything that someone loves, someone else hates enough to quit over, these minor details are all very polarizing. If you cater to one group of people you end up alienating the other groups even more. AKurate seems to be the best guideline for compromise I've seen. While I personally would prefer 2-box format as well, I am happy with the compromise here and I don't like the idea of forcing my preferences on everyone else. There were some posts in this thread from casual players who don't care about the raid stuff. There are also a lot of people who play here that only care about the raid stuff. Fortunately those 2 groups don't clash much, but it would be ridiculous to remove raids just because some people don't like that everyone is in raids and not LFG for casual play.
Well we have TAKP for those who want to 3 box. If a 1 box server using the TAKP source code opens up, then those who want 1 box PoP will go there. People will be able to go to the server that they want to play. People will go to a 1 box server knowing it will be 1 box.
I think we are too far into TAKP's life to talk about changing the ruleset of this now 9 year old server. If you want new rules, that's what the open source release is for. There will be many one box, hardcore, etc niche servers with a vast audience. The success of any new server will more likely come down to the team behind it rather than the rules they adopt.
The point I was trying to make is that restricting things or catering to any other detail that is important to someone might make a few happy and attracted to it, but others who want different things are even more alienated (they are not welcome/allowed). Leaving it up to individuals allows them to coexist and you get a bigger pool of potential group mates. On regular live EQ players could 60 box if they wanted to, or single box, play casual, or raid and we all loved it even if we didn't 60 box. I don't understand the logic of excluding people who want to box resulting in more people playing. Maybe there is some massive group of single boxers on the sidelines who have just been chomping at the bit for an eqemu server that doesn't allow boxing, but I'm skeptical. I would be happy to be proven wrong though. I think it will take a few years to see this shake out anyway.
The administration will make or break the server. There is plenty of demand for a 1 box non-custom server.
Personally, I would not want to go to a "forced 1-box" server not because I would mind single boxing (I much prefer it), but because I'm not a huge fan of the type of playerbase that wants to control how other people play. If enough people want to single box, it doesn't matter if there are multiboxers in there: you will still have people to group with. Fragmenting the population such that there are fewer people to play with just because some people might want to multi-box when they can't find others to play with seems like it would be overall detrimental. Just my unasked for 2 cents.
