PoP zone access

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by necra, Sep 26, 2021.

  1. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    im making this post in the hopes it doesn't turn into a rants and flame post and it can be a serious discussion. Ultimately i respect the devs decision on how pop pans out and we will all have fun regardless but im wanting to know if you guys would consider allowing the AK level restrictions for pop zones to be implemented with the launch of PoP.

    It is my understanding that when PoP is released that all zones will require a flag to access them beyond the level 46 tier 1 zones. On AK for the vast majority of the server life ( I played on AK from around 2009 and these level access to zones were in place then) we had additional access to other zones and these were as follows:
    PoV, PoStorms, CoD = level 55
    PoTactics = level 60
    BoT and Hoh = level 62

    From what i have heard and please correct me if i am wrong, the reason for making all zones to require flags is to make the PoP experience more authentic to how it was when pop launched originally and to make us earn access to zones rather than be handed them on a plate.

    I respect that point of view however the closer we get to PoP and the more i think of it I worry that it is going to make the first week or 2 much less enjoyable.

    I suspect the majority of the server will spend a lot of time in the PoJustice flagging area fighting for hails for the trials to gain access to the better zones, for the vast majority of the server these trials wont be challenging it will just be a roadblock of trivial content locking people out of content.

    The Tier 1 raid mobs for the most part will also be trivial for the raiding guilds, so you will be locked out of content based on a queue rather than difficult content or a long key quest, obviously this was a thing on live when PoP launched but I would argue on live there wasnt 5 guilds decked out in VT gear with full knowledge of all of the encounters.

    I understand that all pop progression mobs are required to be killed for progression into the EP's and beyond but my main concern is access to the XP camps at first and allowing unguilded players access to some of the better zones.

    worst case i suspect we see arguments and tension around the justice trials and also the raiding guilds locking down the postorms camps for the BoT key required for planar progression which may limit access to zones for more casual folks.

    In my mind if we allowed the AK level restrictions to be in place from day 1 it will allow us all to spread out and find a half decent xp camp without being on top of each other fighting for hails in the justice trials or being the lucky guild who gets PoInnovation in the first few rotation kills allowing access to plane of tactics.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this even if the response is a hard no, we all still love the server and a few months after the launch of PoP we will all be in the same position.
     
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  2. Faults

    Faults I Feel Loved

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    I wish I could like this twice.
     
  3. robregen

    robregen Administrator Staff Member

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    This was the agreement within the devs when PoP launches. Sometime down the line after it launches possibly when we open source, we'll grant it level access to these zones.
     
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  4. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    I read the request from Necra being to prevent bad experience during launch of PoP. not as end goal for the server, but more a rubbercell so if people go crazy with camps and stuff they have more options.
     
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  5. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    A few things!

    On AK originally (very early on) the level access was not enabled. So the proposed flagging system is emulated early AK you could say.

    As for the concern with PoJustice flags, there are 6 trials in Justice every one of them grants access to Storms and Valor. They take about 15-30 minutes to run through and have a 30 minute lockout. So you can think of it as 1 hour between trials. That’s 6 groups x 6 characters every hour. 36 flags an hour or 864 potential flags per day.

    In fairness there are some trials that people will fail consistently, so the flags per day will be quite a bit lower but realistically after the first day I suspect Justice will have a pretty consistent flow of groups going through it. Sure the execution trial will be contentious for awhile because everyone favors the easiest trial by far but if you actually get into a group with more than 2 humans you may find the other trials enjoyable and challenging especially at level 60.

    As for Plane of Storms BoT flagging, the raid guilds have agreed to handle these as a rotation similar to the T1/2 raid bosses where each guild will get a 2-3 day block where the giants belong to them. This will prevent any one guild from permacamping the medallion droppers. Non-guilded players can of course contest these targets as they aren’t bound to the raid agreement the guilds agreed to. But this should prevent much of the initial potential for conflict between guilds.

    Starting off guilds will draft raid targets picks on a per kill basis and with 3 day respawns on the targets most guilds should be able to get between 3-4 kills from the below targets.

    Justice - Valor and Storms
    Manaetic Behemoth - Tactics
    Grummus - CoDecay
    Terris Thule - Half Torment flag
    Aerin’Dar - Halls of Honor
    Plane of Storms - BoThunder

    So starting on launch or the day after launch I imagine most guilds will have unlocked 1 additional zone. By day 4-5 of PoP every guild should’ve unlocked 1 additional zone and most unlocked 2.

    All of that in mind I don’t really think the lack of level-access zones will have much of an impact on anyone who is guilded on TAKP. There may be a concern for players who aren’t in a guild as they will be locked out of everything but Storms/Valor for awhile and eventually I imagine BoT flagging will relax and they can catch a medallion mob or two up.

    Personally I think that first week will be pretty interesting. Especially for guilds that get a non-standard first zone unlock. Many people EXP’d in Tactics or BoT. But the guilds that get 72 flags for CoDecay or HoHonor or Torment may find themselves having 5-6 concurrent full groups from their guild grinding in these zones which almost never happened in any era. It could be quite fun!
     
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  6. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    You'll be stuck in this content for years and years, with everybody ending up in full BIS like you have now in VT gear, so I don't think not accessing some zones for a couple of weeks will kill you.

    Some zones are underrated anyway. When you're not level 65 yet, the tier 1 zones are much more viable because they'll be within 5 levels of you. It's really not a big deal. All the PoP zones have huge ZEMs. BoT actually has one the lowest ZEMs. Disease, Justice and Nightmare have the same ZEM as Tactics and Valor. As Darchon said, everybody will be in Valor in 2 days anyway. Any group with VT gear can do any trial easily. Not to mention the alt access quests.
     
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  7. Fadetree

    Fadetree People Like Me

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    Well, we don't all have VT gear or a big guild. But it will all work out.
     
  8. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Yes but VT geared players will get their flags in the harder trials making the execution trial more available
     
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  9. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    It is a fair point that players not in the raiding guilds will be limited to several zones on the server under these flagging rules.

    However most of the zones they are locked out of have bypass quests. Tactics, CoDecay, HoH, and Torment all have bypass quests you could do if you aren't a raider and you still want to access these zones. You just have to put in varying amounts of time depending on the quest
     
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  10. Haynar

    Haynar Administrator Staff Member

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    Fair or not. Its already decided that the level based flag bypass is not going in at launch.

    H
     
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  11. Beaaden

    Beaaden Active Member

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    Screen Shot 2021-09-26 at 08.25.51 PM.png
     
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  12. Pithy

    Pithy I Feel Loved

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    I'm kinda looking forward to the harder PoJ trials (some of which should be fun challenges at level 60-61), and to exp off the beaten path in Tier 1. I always liked the PoN mephit tunnels; the PoI factory was sorta awesome exp in early PoP on Live a billion years ago; I wonder how exp in Grummus' castle, the Mujaki event(s), and the ginormous horse-skeles otw to Terris might be.
     
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  13. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    my cousin back on live used to level to 63 in PoD near grummus castle, because no body really wanted any below level 64 in the BoT groups, and for some reason they all skipped PoV and PoS and went straight to BoT.
     
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  14. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    So your saying there is a chance??


    On a serious note thank you for taking the time to reply all. I figured it would be a long shot but worth bringing up. We will still have fun, now stop replying to my silly thread and get pop finished ;)
     
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  15. Palski

    Palski Member

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    Ohhh the nostalgia of sitting at the PoJ entrance killing rats and prisoners for a chance at a diamond...CAN'T FRIGGIN WAIT
     
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  16. Placer

    Placer Member

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    I posted about this in length a while ago back in the officer's forum. I no longer have access to that post. It dealt with a lot of what has been brought up. Any number of potentially very large problems are likely to occur using the flag/alt access only based system. The upside on the other hand is less clear. If someone who has access wants to include here, you are more than welcome.
     
  17. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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    If you are worried about PoP flagging, just don't play in PoP for the first few months of launch.
    It should be much easier to flag six months in. Hope that alleviates your concerns. No need to rush through content, it'll be here in ten years. If you are stressed about any competition, just choose not to participate. Nobody is forcing you to play.
     
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  18. Auyster

    Auyster People Like Me

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    I just hope I get special privileges and am automatically flagged for Plane of Fire.
     
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  19. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    Or or ... Didnt @Darchon propose that we should have tier one zones released first, then a tiered release :) then no need for level based access
     
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  20. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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    Releasing Tier1 zones for a month first would be amazing, and alleviate a lot of the initial PoP launch shitfest... Every guild is more than capable of killing Tier1 content, so no reason to 'race' through it to be the best. Could even keep the level cap at 60? Make it so the spell parchments don't even drop? Basically just solely have it for purposes of flagging through PoJ trials :)

    I think something like that would be a neat way to launch it, but who knows what others think...
     
    Break likes this.
  21. Hove!

    Hove! People Like Me

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    Level access to zones was added way later when the flagging process was trivial and all content had been completed. I don't understand why anyone would want to launch from day 1 with no requirements to enter anything after T1 other than levels you gained over the course of 6 years on a terminal server with no future content to ever be released.


    The best part of the game is progressing with your friends through the content. Having content handed to you is what's wrong with the current MMOs and the reason most of us are here. It's more about the journey than the destination.


    There also should be some reward for being part of an organized guild that has the ability to progress instead of celebrating mediocrity and handing content to people to avoid a few weeks of over populated T1 zones and flagging bottlenecks. The fact that the alternate access quests are available from launch to gain entry to Tactics, CoDecay, HoH, and Torment is a more than fair compromise. I'm sure those won't be very contested.
     
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  22. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    That was suggested back in 2018 before Luclin even launched.

    I do still stand by that being a very interesting potential unlocking scheme but if it had been done as I suggested with each tier unlocking when development was completed we would’ve looked at something like this:

    Tier 1 April 2020ish
    Tier 2 December 2020ish (or August 2020ish if you exclude Torment from this tier)
    Tier 3 January 2021
    Elementals June 2021

    Im not sure the 1.5 years in PoP before Elemental access would’ve been extremely great considering how many Vex Thal geared guilds are out there. Most guilds raid nights would still be consumed by VT/Ssra/Seru during that time frame.

    Now that we are close to full zone development being completed I’m not sure I see the point in a staggered launch.

    I could see maybe unlocking Justice for a week or a reset prior to the rest of PoP if you are extremely concerned about the Trial lines on days 1 and 2? That trial chamber would be so packed for that week with everyone’s main characters and Alts 4-25 trying to get flagged prior to full unlock.
     
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  23. Pithy

    Pithy I Feel Loved

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    I was about to suggest that a GM event the reset before PoP launch could offer (very rare) Justice trial flags, then I remembered that asking the devs to do more work is dum :p
     
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  24. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    launch event should be killing khatisha in Inner AC serverwide, with some of the quarm mechanics for testing
     
  25. Devour_Souls

    Devour_Souls People Like Me

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    This, cause PoJustice gonna be crazy.
     
  26. Yaximus

    Yaximus Member

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    A phase 1 that was level locked at 60 with only Tier 1 zones available would be neat. Give people some breathing room on trials and perhaps an opportunity for people to explore zones they otherwise wouldn't if the cap is 65.
     
    Break likes this.
  27. necra

    necra People Like Me

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    That is a great idea
     
  28. gardnerjens

    gardnerjens People Like Me

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    We should learn to be civilized insted of rules
     
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  29. Mokli

    Mokli People Like Me

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    This is a good idea. I'd like to add though that xp be removed from the zone however. Wouldn't want people to flood the zone for xp for this week and that could clog up the zone and trials for that week. XP in even PoJ will be better than most of what we have now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  30. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    I don't think the XP needs to be removed. So a few people grind some extra AAs in PoJustice for a week or two. AA EXP they are earning will be far less than anything they will be getting 2 weeks from then in T2 or T3 zones.

    If they did this as a launch event I would suggest changing the PoTranquility stone in PoK to port directly to PoJustice and disable the PoJustice zone out.

    I am sure there would be constant MGBs firing off in the trial room and groups constantly running through all the trials.

    It would also be a decent stress test for the zone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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