Sony in fact, loved IF statements. This is what their exp code looked like: Code: [ Only registered users can see the bbcode. Click Here To Register... ] Their 'damage tables' for player damage looked like that too: just a long series of IFs. I had a little laugh at that. But hey it works I guess. Sony loved to hardcode spell behavior into the client using spell IDs too. That's one reason why it's hard to get spell behavior correctly here. They loved spaghetti. Furthermore on September 4 2002 Sony had implemented an exp penalty to dark blues that scaled an exp reduction by level difference from the player, but removed this two days later. So there is precedent. I AoEd on AK for months. I know what I was doing because I was doing it for 12 hours a day for many weeks. My 126 kill video shows the entire group and their levels. It even shows the AA window showing AAexp%. I'm willing to admit I may have screwed up somewhere, but from what I can see every variable is accounted for at level 60. If you have an alternative explanation I'm all ears. 126 kills(40%) * 2.5 = 315. Druid was getting 103.95% from racial bonus. That's right in-line with the other data showing ~330 kills per AA. Feel free to send me your grimling forest logs and I'll check those if you don't want to. Again I'll restate that you bailed on the camp before the mobs turned light blue while commenting on how you wished you could stay there. For all we know, they implemented this change the day PoP launched, and few people were AoEing after that time. Posts do exist commenting on exp nerfs but they lack any specifics. Regardless, I'm actually rather amazed at the things you players don't in fact notice. Particularly when the errors are in your favor. Charm on PCs here was broken for like a year or something and nobody reported it. If players had figured out everything about the game then I wouldn't have to spend the crazy hours I do trying to figure it out. The people packet sniffing in 2002/2003 didn't even come close to figuring out the sub 60 MLM cap. Remember when you all gave up on the CT ring event because you were sure I had screwed it up? Ya'all didn't even bother to check your own logs. Remember when you guys all told me how certain you were that Jaled`Dar never despawned? I had later discovered a lot of AK log chat with 'why isn't Jaled`Dar up' etc after taking your words for it. Nobody on AK did IVA aggro on AK until I did. The ignore range in FG on AK was 400 units. In fact Sony had increased the ignore range in the zone in early 2003 because rangers were killing stuff there that wouldn't move to them with >400 range archery. That was in a patch note. Please stop pretending like the leashing we have on TAKP is entirely artificial. Users voted for a 3 box server and now I'm hearing about 'not enough humans'. I was the one screaming to not go 3 box from the beginning. What you're asking for is to preserve custom behavior that deviates from AK for artificially inflated AA experience. I was pretty much the only guy PBAoEing on AK at level 60 with enchanters, so I know how good it was, and I logged all of it. Hell it's on YouTube. Wait until after next update when most of the nerf is mitigated away before you proclaim PBAoE to be dead. Hopefully I'll have code pushed to dev in a day or two. I will say that I'm sorry I didn't include the nerf with the AA fix, that was super dumb of me
Seriously! I can't be the only person who's spent a good chunk of the last twenty years bothered by the stream that clearly flows uphill out of LOIO and then downhill to the ocean in FV, can I?
I'm always one to favor AKuracy. If it were common knowledge that AE EXP was reduced hugely, I would've posted about it years ago here. But this is something that literally no one in this thread has mentioned being a piece of knowledge they were aware of. It is tough to report something you don't know existed in the first place. The reason I remain skeptical is it is a very narrow set of parameters that must be met based on the description you provided. Sub level 61, killing blue mobs, with the majority(?) of the damage being dealt through PBAE means. As you said you were the only one on the server with 60 enchanters, so you were basically the only one with the logs meeting these parameters. That's not to say your logs are faulty If only Vintage had defeated Velious and started grinding Luclin AAs we may have more logs. Anyone else AE killing on AK was doing it in PoP zones, for tradeskill materials, or was DS Powerleveling where the bulk of the damage came from DSes. My Grimling logs for example were done mostly with DS damage, probably <5% of the damage dealt was done via spell casting which likely means they were exempt from the EXP reduction you describe. Also for the record, I know leashing existed on AK. I lost Quavonis many times in that fire tunnel. I will still say that some of the zones, the leash distance seems very short but I have nothing beyond a gut feeling here. On thinking on this more, I think I could buy into the idea that PBAE killing resulted in lower than normal EXP from mobs due to the client/server failing to capture a few EXP hits out of a huge chunk of simultaneous kills. That makes more sense in my head than a -40%~ EXP return on each kill because level 50-55~ mobs killed by level <60 characters were damaged from mostly AE damage.
glad newer programming language have new cool feartures, to make the code alot cleaner Code: [ Only registered users can see the bbcode. Click Here To Register... ]
You don't need my logs. I have videos. Go watch them. Go add up the kills. Go look at the exp bar which the fantastic poweroftwo UI shows. Calculate the exp per kill using the known EQ math. One reason why I didn't realize AAs were requiring too much exp for so long is because of the numbers I was seeing from my AoE logs. When I started ignoring those then the numbers suddenly made sense and fit all of the old EQ research. The math perfectly fits every known example otherwise. All of the Zamiel data. All of the showEQ data. My druid solo leveling and AAs. The only place it does not fit is grouped PBAoE with players over level 40 fighting NPCs about 5 or more levels under the character. It makes sense for Sony to have scaled exp from 5 levels down because 56+ mobs are immune to PB stuns and players aren't going to pull 80 mob trains of white cons. (minus the IVA abuse or shakerpage anyway) The obvious response to this is that DS damage is neutral and so the PBAoE damage could be checking against non-neutral damage done to the NPC in the same way you can get kill credit by doing 1 damage. Regardless you are arguing that I should make it less forgiving if your logs show reduction. As I said before, I can't say precisely how it was done, but under typical PBAoE circumstances it is clearly visible. There are different ways it could have been implemented. I hate the leashing. I don't like it. I wrote a forum post on Sony's board in 2012 asking if it should even exist when I was frustrated trying to kite stuff in Kunark zones on AK. I put it in because it existed. It was carefully measured. It still exists on Live servers. I have a few AK examples from logs where it was not ambiguous how large it should be because bards were using bellow and commenting on whether the NPCs would chase or not and where they were standing. Leashing makes VP trivial. It's dumb. I did in fact notice two occasions where my kills did not seemingly award exp in PoTactics. Examining a video frame-by-frame In two cases a Diaku Scout did not move my exp bar. I don't know why. Maybe packet loss or something not updating my bar. (EQ uses UDP so not impossible) Who knows. But this was rare and cannot account for the PBAoE reductions. My Jan 2002 log, my magician grimling log, and my March 2004 log shows the normal exp rate pretty much as expected. If kills were being ignored somehow, they'd have showed up there. Furthermore even if this were the case, it wouldn't matter because it would act as a de facto exp nerf that existed regardless. And it's not a flat 40% reduction on every kill. It scales with level difference. If people are not going to read my posts then I'm wasting my time here.
I did, but he seemed innocent so i let him off the hook If i find the culprit though he's going to hear about it!
Torven, I continue to be amazed at all the effort you put into trying to make the EQ mechanics on this server as accurate as possible. I am in full support of these changes.
Im with Tarkon on this one 100%, I think it should be considered beyond the nerf, but to avoid the complete *%8%show of exploiting that happened when Luclin launched maybe add unstunnables to PoN and PoI. People shouldnt be able to get 90% of their AA exp in the first few weeks of an expansion, what ever happened to making friends and killing mobs in grindmode?
2 Years in and i'm still expeing with people. As a matter of fact not many people nowadays log on to exp because the luclin burn out is very real. A lot of folks just log on to raid. I love how people think aoe'ing is antisocial and only for people who want to do a quick burst of xp and not play anymore. I do regular group with boxes, single box group (my fav) and AOE. AOE is fun and challenging and usually means 5 or 6 humans. Just because YOU believe it's an antisocial activity does not make it so. Just because some of us like to play the game differently doesn't make it the ONLY way to play the game. It's one of MANY ways to play the game. We always have a blast doing it and all of us are shooting the breeze in discord while doing so. Some of the best times to be had. IF that makes us wrong then i don't want to be right.
its not antisocial but it introduces a click type environment like we're in high school again, Ive heard people from every guild on the server complain about not being in the aoe click or whatever the current exploit is (RIP Paludal) id rather see people forming groups in alliance, plus i think more regular exp groups with melee dps means more characters simultaneously getting exp and not just 1 group hogging an entire zone
Sounds like a personal problem. We opened AOE groups to a lot of people. I've personally aoe'ed with probably 40 different people since luclin release. People come and go. The same as i've grouped with ton of people in single box or regular groups. Cliques are always a funny thing to me in EQ, because it's usually always one or two dudes motivated to make the group and plan everything and everyone else just waiting for someone else to do it for them, so that one guy pick his best bet at the group not sucking. The entire story of EQ is some people making groups and thriving and others sitting LFG in a channel or a guild chat for hours and complaining. That's nothing new. I've heard people whining about cliques for 20 years because they usually don't have the drive to make their own groups, send tons of tells to tons of people and try to accommodate everyone's schedule and everyone's preference on where to play etc. If you want something in EQ make a group for it. Spend the time, talk to lots of people. Some will decline but some will come. If you've never been invited to an AOE group you probably never tried to make one yourself. Sometimes plan it days in advance. that's how we do it for pretty much every group nowadays, and there's always something to do if you play like that. That might be you or it may not, i don't know you, but this is my experience with EQ, there are usually very few people 'left out', and those who are usually do it to themselves by never trying to organize things.
36 chars get exp at a time and everyone gets to play or 6 chars (regardless of how many humans which i guarantee is less than 6) get to play at a time
Youre trying to sell something as a positive where less people win rather than more people, I've AOEd plenty, I was in ME when it got nerfed, but looking back I would rather not have been. We need to promote people forming more groups and stepping outside of their own guild for exp. Im sure theres been some very social aoe groups but most of the time it isnt. AOE lets 6 chars get exp at a time and hog multiple camps whereas if there were 6 regular groups instead at each of those camps thered be more to share
This is being hijacked a bit. It should have nothing to do with what is a better design choice over what it currently is. It should be what is AKcurrate vs what's not. That's where the argument is. A number of people don't recall an xp nerf when AOEing. If you want to talk about social vs antisocial behavior then why not just go ahead and nuke charm xp/dps like was done on live after the AK era? That will be all 3 boxers, maybe a 4th with one human doing all the work. Why? Because someone can get on and get the xp they need for the day in less than an hour and log off and spend time with their families. Sorry that some people would rather do that than spend time with online friends. Essentially what people do now when they Rev charm for an hour and log for the day.
I'm just saying, youre going to get into PoV, PoTactics, and PoFire and get 10 AAs + an hour anyways. Theres going to be 1 guild hogging Trials, 1 guild doing MB for tactics access, do we really need a repeat of luclin launch? I dont want to see PoN and POI stunlocked by an entire guild. I play on AK because I dont want to wake up at 3am to a batphone to raid. I like this server because everyone has to do the slow grind, they can choose to play or not play when they want to. I dont blame people for having families. But thats just reality, people who put more time into things should have more than people who dont.
It's been 6 people in these groups, I can confirm, and it's been fun as hell. In fact, it's got me to log in more after I've capped my AA's. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed my three box solo clique where I can log in, kill a handful of stuff, afk, and log out as I please to exp. But, it's been a lot more fun AEing than my normal routine.
