Open Discussion about Archery and Corners

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Linkamus, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. Liegezen

    Liegezen People Like Me

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    You're such a tease
     
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  2. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Here are the DPS results as promised. Note the following:

    * All of these are with: (for melee anyway) 250 item ATK, 170 spell ATK, 125% haste (using Rizlona, so also benefits from the spell damage focus), full AAs. Logs were about 1 hour each
    * Target is the Arena 'a dummy' mob which is level 55 with 200 mitigation AC. 200 is a very typical AC value for high level common mobs (and many raid mobs). Resists were set to 0. Dummy was always backface to avoid any dodges, parries, ripostes.
    * There are for certain inaccuracies in the combat code, (although much of it is precise) so this isn't 100% like Sony's servers would have been. I don't know if all the PoP combat AAs are working. (most are however)


    Time Wizard: 505 DPS - Strike of Solusek with 30% item damage focus and Blessing of Reverence + Maelin's Shoes
    notes: I did not use a click item to reduce the recast delays. Casting at this rate put me OOM in about 2:37 with VoQ, nine, marr, familiar on. Wiz robe would make focus 35%

    Time Rogue: 326 DPS (pierce 197 + backstab 124 + non-melee 5) - Jagged Timeforged Blade + Dagger of Distraction
    notes: I did not use any poison

    Time Wizard: 302 DPS - Ice spells using Barrier of Freezing Winds (35% cold focus) + Maelin's Shoes + Blessing of Reverence casting Destruction, Solist, Draught
    notes: Rizlona was not used as I forgot that Iceflame doesn't work on Draught of E'ci. Rizlona might have added another 5 DPS or whatever since iceflame and bard focus don't stack

    Time Monk: 262 DPS (melee 227 + non-melee (procs) 7 + kicks 29) - Shinai of the Ancients + Hammer of the Timeweaver
    notes: the hammer is the Quarm weapon, but our version has a 150 dmg proc instead of a pet, so it's doing less damage

    Time Paladin vs Undead: 257 DPS (melee 197 + non-melee 56 + bash 4) - Greatblade of Chaos; casting Deny Undead w/ 35% dmg focus; Ward of Nife buff
    notes: I did 3 holyforges and combined it was 286 DPS average. Holyforge doesn't add much if the paladin has Slay Undead AA, which was fixed in a later era. Max cleanse = 5460

    Time Monk: 255 DPS (melee 218 + non-melee (procs) 6 + kicks 30) - Bo Staff of Transcendence
    notes: this is the old version of the Time P5 weapon. Stats were later changed from 52/28 proc:Time Snap to 54/30 proc:Time Rend (50 more dmg)

    Time Shadowknight: 254 DPS (melee 140 + non-melee 114) - Vanazir; casting: Spear of Decay, Touch of Innoruuk, Touch of Volatis, Spear of Plague on cooldown; Mental Corruption buff
    notes: like the wizard, this expended mana very quickly-- without GM buffs I went OOM in 2.5 minutes. Spears had no damage focus from equipment because the SK BP is not in our database. Vanazir also has an AC debuff, which will bias the result. Didn't use 2h bash AA as it was broken; would prob be ~2-3 DPS

    Time Ranger, Archery: 249 DPS - Bow of the Tempest + Mithril Champion Arrow + Fleeting Quiver; Eagle Eye buff
    notes: rangers have self-only ATK buffs which I did not use, so all these ranger parses are underestimating their damage slightly.

    Time Shadowknight: 246 DPS (melee 120 + bash 10 + non-melee 116) - Cudgel of Venomous Hatred + Shield of Strife; casting: Spear of Decay, Touch of Innoruuk, Touch of Volatis, Spear of Plague on cooldown; Mental Corruption buff
    notes: same notes as above SK parse, regarding spells.

    Time Ranger, Melee: 243(246)+X DPS (melee 170 + kick 4 + non-melee 69 + Timespinner pet X) - Timespinner + Edge of Eternity; 20% DD focus, 23% spell haste; casting: Brushfire, Frozen Wind, Calefaction; Cry of Thunder buff
    notes: Timespinner pet proc damage is way off for us right now; real estimated DPS from it might be 10ish? wild guess. Ranger BP has a much better focus for fire spells (35%). Adding Calefaction as a third spell seemed to cause a loss of ~2-3 DPS with these weapons. Just casting the two PoP nukes, mana could be sustained quite awhile with VoQ+Nine+Marr; something 18-20 minutes. (I used a mana pres focus) Two PoP nukes+EoE/ proc = 57 DPS. Melee DPS w/o Calefaction ~ 185.5

    Elemental Monk: 244 DPS (melee 206 + non-melee 8 + kick 30) - Exquisite Puresteel Wraps + Hammer of Crushing Waves
    notes: weapons from Xegony and Coirnav

    Elemental Ranger, Archery: 236 DPS - Stonewood Compound Bow + Mithril Champion Arrow + Fleeting Quiver; Eagle Eye buff

    Elemental Ranger, Melee: 229 DPS (melee 165 + non-melee 61) - Ivory Hilted Cleaver + Stone Etched Mallet; 20% DD focus, 23% spell haste; casting: Brushfire, Frozen Wind; Cry of Thunder buff
    note: weapons from Avatar of Dust and A Monstrous Mudwalker

    (almost) Elemental Monk: 222 DPS (melee 186 + non-melee (procs) 6 + kicks 31) - Rune Etched Bamboo Bo
    notes: this is the stick from Jiva in Solusek Ro's tower. It seems bad?

    Time Warrior: 201 DPS (melee 193 + kick 5 + non-melee 3) - Vanazir
    note: Vanazir has an AC debuff. Incidentally the Vanazir hate/second was 5% less than the BoW's

    Elemental Warrior: 189 DPS (melee 184 + kick 5) - Blade of War
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
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  3. Faults

    Faults I Feel Loved

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  4. Bragon

    Bragon People Like Me

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    Thanks Rallos we went for wizard boxes over rangers. It was a close one!

    Were you on horses for wizards?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  5. Linkamus

    Linkamus People Like Me

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    So with proper buffs, rangers would slightly out damage wizards with trueshot activated. But only once per hour in a 2 minute window.

    That's awesome, but doesn't seem that crazy OP to me.

    VERY cool to see all these numbers Torven. Love it.

    Edit: On a side note, it makes me happy to see ranger melee DPS way up there near 250 too. (Or plus 250 with timespinner proc)

    Double edit: why EoE over quarm hammer for ranger parse? Timeweaver would do better wouldn't it? Still awesome to see numbers regardless.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  6. Faults

    Faults I Feel Loved

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    Man I want see mages + pets and necros + pets now too. Really nice breakdown.
     
  7. Bragon

    Bragon People Like Me

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    Quarm hammer over eoe too imo for ranger melee.
     
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  8. actualspaide

    actualspaide People Like Me

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    Nerf sk damage imo!
     
  9. Tryfan

    Tryfan People Like Me

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    Was the wizard parse including concussions or should we just assume you could maintain that pace for about 45 seconds before pulling aggro and dying?
     
  10. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Maelins Pants every cast is about all you need.
     
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  11. thucydides

    thucydides I Feel Loved

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    On the warrior parses, how hard were you hitting the kick button?
     
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  12. Foxboxx

    Foxboxx People Like Me

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    Ahh, neat! It's cool seeing the numbers like that! The SK DPS is surprisingly high. I figured those old 2003 logs maybe just had some lucky circumstances, but wooooow. They really become a damaging powerhouse. I am kinda curious about what the raw damage of pallys with Slay Undead is now =P. Top DPS on Bertox, perhaps?!

    It's true rangers would have our self only ATK buff, but our rogues would have Savagery/Ferocity. Maybe monks too, if they beg hard enough =P.
     
  13. Bragon

    Bragon People Like Me

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    Ya monks and rogues usually get the sham/bst candy.
     
  14. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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    Let's focus the discussions on nerfing SKs next and side step the whole enc pop charm thing.

    I mean, ShadowKnights beating rangers with 250 dps while being equal with non-defensive warrior tanks? And imminent infinite mana un-nerf courtesy of Haynar? What's up with that?
     
  15. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    What makes SK DPS so high compared to Paladin?
     
  16. Pithy

    Pithy I Feel Loved

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    half their dps is nukes and lifetaps
     
  17. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    I dunno about Temerity, but our Time god kills back in 2003 took a lot longer than 2.5 minutes. OOM wizards do 0 DPS unless they're clicking Velk robes.

    170 spell ATK isn't very much. I used that because the GM buffs last many hours and I'm not going to cast 6 minute buffs over and over for this. The Ranger's sheet ATK with a 170 ATK buff was 1849. An archery parse (Time bow) I did at 2205 sheet ATK was ~274 DPS. All the melee DPS estimates go up considerably with full ATK buffs. (Ferocity and Ferine)

    Also, many raid bosses will end up with less than 200 AC because of raid debuffs.

    I didn't think super hard on weapon setups. I have shit to do, to be frank.

    These numbers should be considered a ballpark figure. Lots of factors could change them: RNG, fight duration, buffs, missed melee rounds from moving, mob AC/resists, needing to aggro dump, etc.

    Theoretical hate generation for the wizard clicking pants after each cast would be 239 hate/second. (1 SoS + concussion 1792 hate / 7.5 seconds) Warrior with BoW hate/second was 134.6 with 125% haste. Add another ~2200 hate for the melee range bonus.
     
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  18. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    For the melee parses, the skill key was pressed about as fast as it possibly could (something like 10 times a second using software), over LAN.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  19. Linkamus

    Linkamus People Like Me

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    I can't remember how long Time God kills took for Temerity on AK, but I'm sure is was way longer than 2.5 minutes, ya.
     
  20. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Added new Monk and Paladin parses
     
  21. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    [Mon Sep 30 22:28:36 2013] Tallon Zek tries to hit YOU, but are INVULNERABLE!
    [Mon Sep 30 22:36:20 2013] Tallon Zek's corpse says 'Foolish mortals, you know not what you do. Continue on this path and you shall lead us all to destruction!'

    8min for TZ

    [Tue Oct 01 22:08:25 2013] There are 57 players in Plane of Time.
    [Tue Oct 01 22:08:51 2013] Oreh tells the group, '0===|;;;;;;::::::::::::::::::> INC Terris Thule'
    [Tue Oct 01 22:14:40 2013] Terris Thule's corpse says 'My armies have failed. . . how could this have happened?'
    [Tue Oct 01 22:14:52 2013] You tell your raid, 'Coif of Flowing Time - Cape of Endless Torment'

    6min for TT

    [Tue Oct 01 00:19:33 2013] Oreh tells the group, '0===|;;;;;;::::::::::::::::::> INC Saryrn'
    [Tue Oct 01 00:26:51 2013] Saryrn's corpse says 'My minions. . . my power. . . lost. Impossible. . .'

    6min~ for Saryrn
     
  22. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    There were some epically long P4 god kills on low turnout nights, though.
     
  23. thucydides

    thucydides I Feel Loved

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    I don't see how software can replicate the immense pressure that every warrior knows the kick button needs to really eke out that dps edge. Its rather strenuous. A good warrior that is an active raider should go through ~2 keyboards a month, maybe more if they're really skilled.
     
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  24. lurari

    lurari People Like Me

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    Sounds like we have a new bug to have an open discussion about. Monk AC, Ranger Archery, and Paladin DPS disc! The holy trinity (rangers are basically nature warrior-priests, right?).

    This is an issue that clearly needs to be rectified. All two Paladins on the server cannot enjoy their class without a proper DPS disc and if this bug stays like this we may not have any Paladins mains remain on TAKP!
     
  25. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

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    Lets see...I don't have a Paladin, so I think their dps is too high.
     
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  26. Majo

    Majo Well-Known Member

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    Soooo monks should probably just go ahead and reroll as SK now?
     
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  27. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

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    Once Time geared. Monks are close to the top of the dps charts typically now.

    Most raid mobs resist our spears heavily in Luclin, so any dps from those are negligible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  28. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    I wrote notes underneath the numbers for a reason. That level of SK DPS cannot be sustained.

    Although it is kind of nutty that an SK could probably hit 300 DPS in a short fight using disc HT if the target has 0 disease resist, lowish MR and low AC.
     
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  29. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    I remember one Trakanon fight in which five SKs did 7200 DPS each. Nerf shadowknights!
     
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  30. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Also, Time gear certainly favors knights:

    Vanazir, Dreamer's Despair 2HB
    DMG: 60 Delay: 38 Ratio: 1.58
    Class: WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, MNK, BST

    Greatblade of Chaos 2HS
    DMG: 53 Delay: 33 Ratio: 1.61
    Class: PAL, SHD

    Cudgel of Venomous Hatred 1HB
    DMG: 45 Delay: 28 Ratio: 1.61

    Hopebringer 1HS
    DMG: 41 Delay: 25 Ratio: 1.64

    Plus the time armor that all plate classes can wear that is superior to warrior elemental set pieces.