My memory is pretty bad. But specifically I remember when LMM was cornered, if you hugged the wall to LMMs right, and got as close as you can to him, you could hit all day long while he was cornered. This was in the corner to the right when you first walked in his room. Fox was telling me earlier he found a subtle sweet spot for VZ in time. Some of the VT bosses I remember there were places in their rooms you could get a bit above them and shoot down at them to get consistent hits. I can't remember specifics for each boss, sadly. But I do know in general I was able to find sweet spots for most of them. Take it for what it's worth I guess.
*Feels left out and goes to hide in a corner* Many bugs on AK were too bizarre to do a reasonable recreation of, and this bow bug is probably one of them. I am still of the mind to just fix the corner bug completely and be done with it. On a balance level, I don't mind Jolt becoming a useful spell, but I do feel that sends us down a strange road where we begin trying to balance the game. It is rare for us to be in a raid situation where our wizards run out of mana, and surely it is only fair that rogues, rangers, and monks do have a chance to outdmg them on fights where that manages to happen. Rogues and monks already rival non-trueshotted bow damage when it is working 100% of the time, and they far outclass it once PoP comes around. It just seems so silly to have this fear of rangers being overpowered if they can actually function in an unbugged state. The boxing environment here gives a completely different dynamic than we had on live. Wizards aren't overpowered, but because everyone can freely have 1 or 2 tag along with them, they are always going to be the best class for damage to have around, with a well-played one dealing double, triple, and sometimes even quadruple damage than every other class on most raid mobs. Rangers, even completely fixed, will never compare. I'm not calling for wizard nerfs or anything silly like that =P. I am just trying to argue that this fear of rangers bringing some kind of imbalance to the server by being functional is unfounded.
@Lenas - Ya, I'm not saying backstab is just as convenient as archery, though I guess it kind of came off that way. I was just trying to show that it's all arbitrary. It just so *happens to be* that it's archery bugged, and not backstab. It's your opinion that archery is too powerful, and to me that is not justification for keeping archery bugged, even if you're right.
You overestimate the forumquesting of what was basically five individuals. A lot of class-specific knowledge in Temerity was only handled in game and passed from one person to another, often informally. Cromis guides were an exception. @Linkamus mentioned a few that stick out because they were especially peculiar. AK geometry was full of weird sweet spots where things that perhaps shouldn't have worked, actually did. I doubt Temscouts found all of them, and I wouldn't be surprised if the folks in Destiny/Pathfinders had separate spots.
Staff discussed this. Consensus for now is to leave archery as-is. Any deviations would just cause worse issues and not be AK-like on top of it. Keep in mind: archery isn't as good in Luclin as it will be in PoP, which has raid bosses with much less AC. Archery will be very strong if your raid decides to opt out of corner tanking.
Yeah, I never ever went to a guide to find these spots. It was a matter of following other rangers and or learning them as you went. The spot I always used for LiS I learned when I was in Dark Conquest. When we collapsed and I moved to Destiny I found folks using a different spot altogether. This paired with different guilds even tanking some of these mobs in different spots than each other also contributes. I'm sorry I can't provide more info or evidence for these. I've never much been one for writing or reading lengthy raid encounter guides. So much info lost to time .
I don't think it could be any less AK than its current iteration. We really have no function and may as well just all afk in raids while boxing a wizard or cleric, or perhaps just not bring the ranger at all. It is a miserable existence. We may as well just not exist. I beg the staff to reconsider. I would give more info on the angles for hitting arrows, but it widely varied so much that I have a tough time remembering standing in any one spot.
This wasnt an ak behavior exclusive. I was a ranger main from luclin to oow. The finding of the proper spot along the wall to hit cornered mobs was a game all of our rangers played from vt to potime untill they finally fixed this god forsaken bug. Corner never meant nothing hit. This is a behavior native to takp and quite frankly why even be ranger with this? Outside of trueshot melee was more dps anyway once you got ep or time level weapons with all the aas to go with it. This was thoroughly parsed by our ranger crew back then.
I'm disappointed, but also confused. We will now be able to hit 0% of cornered bosses on TAKP, but could probably hit the majority of cornered bosses on AK. So I'm not seeing how leaving this bug in the game makes TAKP more akurate. The nature of the 3-box rule on this server means a ton of wizard boxes on raids. We will likely never un-corner a mob for the sake of a few rangers when we have that much fire-power from wizards. So like Bragon mentioned, why even be a ranger? While we have a ton of fun utility, archery has always been the cornerstone in my eyes, and the reason I have enjoyed playing a ranger for so many years. As I said, I'm disappointed, but will still respect the dev's decision in this matter. I just hope that you guys reconsider.
lol can't Ranger melee as well? seems it so dependent on archery like it's the only thing they can do.
We deal less damage than warriors in melee, so why even have us on raids? I feel that ruling is the same as telling all of us ranger mains to rerole, or just not play our mains on raids. Guilds won't go through the effort to uncorner mobs here, because like Ravenwing said, why bother when you have 16 wizards and 3 rangers? I do recall Bertox being a cornered mob, and all I see is rangers temporarily reaching the damage of other classes when luck decides to let our arrows hit. We have wildly fluctuating dps.
Why be a ranger over a rogue then? Archery is part of the ranger fun, like having a pet for a mage over just nuking. And to torvens post: rng gonna rng. I bet a rogue hitting a ton of double bs in a row would look pretty op too.
Why be a ranger over a warrior, even. Currently we're just worse than warrior and better than bard dps....Also we can MGB predator!
Yet warrior melee obliterates rangers right now and i dont see it changing till pop very high end. Why be a ranger? The sweet sweet buffs and inferior mitigation then?
So. Basically it never was an open discussion. It was a demand to fix archery to work with corner tanking.
Was it? It was an expose on how it was on ak, live and how it is here, and the impact on playstyle and class. Having played a ranger for years in a guild that parsed everything i have never consistantely beat wizards or rogues. Yep you can ts and be lucky and be the superstar on one mob. Then 5 min later be middle of the pack dps on next boss.
I have nothing but respect for the devs and this is just a case where I strongly, but respectively, disagree. It just makes the motivation for playing my main really bottom out. I probably wouldn't have made my main a ranger here if I knew we were going to be so unlike our AK counterparts. I was hoping the discussion part would be about making it closer to AK, or just fixing it. Keeping it as is just...hurts. It's not AKkurrate or balanced, just makes us all wonder if we should join the rangers before us and rerole.
We did have discussion about it in terms of permarooted mobs. mobs that are walled instead of cornered. That was where we weighed in. I assumed it would make it difficult to make it Akurate on takp due to our code and geometry with corners.
It's an open discussion. I'm not demanding anything. As I said, I respect the devs decision, but that doesn't mean my opinion has changed. I just hope the decision is reconsidered in the future, that's all.
Here's an old post from 2005 that mentions both arrow stacking and shooting from a parallel spot: http://www.eqoutrider.net/eqforums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=603
It probably is most certainly a difficult to replicate bug. If we're talking about what is more AKurate though, between no archery on corner mobs or the bug being completely fixed, then being fixed is certainly far, far more AKurate. We could arrow far more cornered mobs than we could not, and no fight comes to mind that I could not find a place to arrow on, while I can think of a great many I could. A neat find. That arrow bug where they got stuck in midair was always a strange sight.
On how many fights would you AK rangers say shooting parallel to the wall allowed you to hit the mov? As a %.
I'd say around 80 to 90% of raid mobs were arrowable in corners from some angle. It was disappointing to find fights where you could not, but they were far from the norm.
Color me skeptical on that one, Fox. I think if rangers could almost always hit cornered mobs, we'd not have tied ourselves into knots to avoid cornering e.g. Fennin and the P4 ladies in Time.
