Official Raid Rotation Post

This is a little off topic. But, can we come up with another term other than "poopsocking". I cringe every time I read that damn word. Sorry if I am being a doo doo head.

 

Only if we also ban the word 'toon'

 

I kind of prefer calling those that sock, Neckbeards.

Ban avatar with the toons ban.

Chars. Or characters.

Let those poopsocking neckbeards play their toons like they want. FREE WEEKLY INSTANCED NAGGY AND VOX FOR ALL GUILDS!!!!!

H

 

Anyway, my 2 cents if anybody cares what I think:

First and foremost I believe that staff mandated rotations on players means the staff should shoulder the burden of maintaining the rotation. Forcing players who do not like rotations to manage a rotation schedule is ridiculous and abdicating responsibility. Previous rotations were handled by consenting parties-- this time it's mandated by server admins. Rotations have a significant administrative cost to them. You can't just say 'ok, rotations! we're all sharing now, kumbaya' and ignore the details of implementation. Rotations were by far the most complicated option. None of the issues with rotations I brought up in the previous thread were settled.

Making a guild 'earn' their way in makes some sense, otherwise you'll have every 5 man guild asking to get on the list whether they can kill them or not, which will make the list a nightmare to maintain. On the other hand, the first guilds on the list didn't have other guilds breathing down their necks behind them to get on it, nor did they have to monitor respawn timers. Forcing guilds to 'bully' their way in provides a strong motivation for the guilds on the list to kill their spawns as soon as possible and shut out newcomers.

 

Oh i thought it had been mentioned before there would be 1 FFA per month where rotation guilds were not involved *confused*

 

what do you mean a FFA per month where roations are not involved ? asin any 1 can kill the mob or anyone not on the rotation?

All this rotation stuff is a load of shite, if you see the mob up kill it and be done!

 

The community voted and rotations won. As I told Iance, if poopsocking won I would live with it. Well luckily (for me) rotations won. I have heard rumors that those that have been banned may be creating a poopsocking server. If you want poopsocking, I suggest you join them on their server.

 

do you understand what poopsocking is???

If you log on and a mob is up, then you move there and kill it how is that poopsocking?

please explain?

No rules have been set it stone about rotations, only that there is 1, SD are the only guild on the rotation at the moment, and they say it is FFA on the mob if you want to be in the rotation.

 

So here is my input as requested by Adaephon earlier in the thread.

I agree with pretty much everything he has said on many different points;
- I like the 24 hours to attempt if its your turn - It encourages people to get your shit together and pull your socks up. Also it means that a guild won't potentially be waiting for a lifetime because the 'casual ' guilds want 3 weeks to attempt a dragon
- These are only dragon with a long respawn so it does seem daft, but I agree we can all share absolutely.
- We 'bullied' our way into vox last night and there was no butthurt from ourselves or Starvold, we dealt with it like non retards would deal with it (I think at least). Starvald didn't have a force for a few hours so me and Adeaphon chatted and I knew we had some time to attempt - no poopsocking at all.
- Not saying he wouldn't be fair or a good one, but Adaephon shouldn't be the gate keeper, no. It should be everyone that is involved and ready to attempt the targets. In saying that, yes the rotation is community controlled, but I don't believe a guild/group or individual should have much baring on the decisions made for the rotation unless you are ready to be in that rotation. A level 36 still taking HHK guards should not be determining who is and isn't in a dragon rotation (for example)

The comments about when Kunark is released and Velious etc this will all change, the hardcores will be pulling away etc etc etc etc is all irrelevant as we are talking year(s) for that to come in. We are here and now, and some of us want to raid now. Unless there is a suggestion for those 'hardcore' raiders to take a break until that content is released as there isn't much else for us to do right now as we pretty much have BiS? which would further damage the server population after a 1/3 of it has already left? just to appease the 'casual' guilds?
This may be a little ahead also, but when Planes come out it will be the same thing. I don't think trash should be on a rotation (in the same way Fire giants aren't) but the rotation should work the same way. 24 hours (maybe 48 as there is a lot more trash) for mini's and gods. That way more people can get involved in gearing up (like 10 toons (Sorry Torvon)) for example.

As far as I am aware there are only 2 guilds (Divine Right are potentially the 3rd) that are as of right now attempting/killing the dragons and we all seem to be on the same page. If you want to attempt, pull your socks up and crack on. If you're not ready, maybe concentrate on getting ready to take a shot, but until that point, the people currently doing the content can carry on as they have thus far with no drama.

Oiawain did point out about separate rotations, I disagree. They are very similar loot tables and come as a pair in my view. However, just because you can do one, doesn't mean you can successfully kill the other. However, with a 24 hour window in place, this will stop a guild from continually failing on 1 or the other and it will be open to others

Edit; I vote also for a submission of a screenshot of the corpse as your ticket into the rotation. Without it, do one.

 

I agree with what Cyph has said, Which guilds would you consider that can currently kill the dragons?

 

well at the moment it seems, SD, Fallout and maybe Divine right, so I guess posts from other guilds at this time are irrelevant.

Vox fear is mental though!

 

I haven't posted on this thread to avoid the drama that usually ensues whenever any topic is debated in EQ. The first post in this thread also said "to contact the guild leadership of SD to schedule your raid". That is in fact what I did.

I contacted Adaephon from SD the other night who said there were several other guilds (Divine Right and Fallout) that also wanted to schedule raids and we should discuss it. I suggested the discussion take place in game and I thought he agreed and said he would contact me.

Apparently I misunderstood?

 

Hi, Trisi, I've been trying to catch you in-game but maybe our play times don't really sync.

I haven't really responded here because I talked to Adaephon last week and was pretty indifferent on the fine details of the rotation. I did request that Divine Right get an uncontested shot on the next Nagafen to enter the rotation on that mob, Adaephon agreed and I'm hoping that agreement is maintained since I've been telling my members to schedule around that. The whole "proving yourself by sniping another guild's dragon" concept was brought up after this agreement.

I'm still pretty indifferent, there's pros and cons to the different ways a guild can get on the rotation. One weird thing about the "snipe" method is that if one guild "fails" it penalizes all other guilds on the rotation even though there's nothing they can really do about it. Might create some animosity, who knows. And as it's been said, the problem with just adding guilds to the rotation per request is that any 2-3 people could form a guild and request a mob like Nagafen, the rotation for that mob could get so bloated that you're looking at month long waits for your spot. If you think Kunark will help... well, the most contested mobs on P99 are Phara Dar, Venril Sathir, Cazic Thule, and... Nagafen. CoFs, Prayers of Life, and Bladestoppers are still good in Kunark... who knew.

One way to refine the "snipe" method is to have an FFA week. Let's say the rotation is SD, Divine Right, Fallout, FFA. The first 3 guilds have exclusive rights to their mob (as long as they kill it within 24 hours), but on the 4th week any of those 3 guilds can kill that mob, but if a guild outside the rotation kills the mob they get added to the rotation. This plan probably won't please the casuals, but you basically just need to invest in extra socks once and then you're comfortably on the rotation.

Vox... we're waiting for the fear to get fixed or to recruit some more mages.

Planes I support no rotation on the trash, rotation on the minis.

 

Reiker, by uncontested do you mean you get one shot at it?

 

That wasn't really discussed. At the time the only potential raid guilds were SD and Divine Right (and I guess Destiny but I don't think they've discussed getting on the rotation yet). All I requested was to have our shot on Nagafen this week, and I said I supported a 24 hour limit to kill your mob.

Like I said before, Adaephon said he'd honor this agreement since it was made before Fallout was formed and he started coming up with ways to limit how many guilds could be on the rotation by "challenging" them.

 

I really like the idea of FFA snipe week. Doesn't fuck up anybody who is already in, it's a good way to show you're actually a competitor, and makes all involved pull up their boot straps with minimal disruption.

Failed snipe attempts should bar subsequent attempts during the next FFA period for the folks who tried the snipe perhaps?

 

Just to clarify, you mean that on week 4(the FFA week) that is any new guild that wants in on the rotation to have their shot? So the 3 that already are in the rotation let this new guild have a shot? I think that's a good idea. It means no guild in the rotation is 'forced' to give up their week.

I must note, we are not on the rotation currently either and we will honour any 'agreements' starvold have made already. However, I think the whole 'snipe' is purely for the 2nd guild to get into the rotation. As currently there is only 1. So Adaephon just said if its up and we aren't there prepping for it then attempt it (hence the snipe). Once there is an actual rotation in place then a FFA week Or 'New guild attempt' week would be a better idea.

 

I haven't read most of the stuff on here, but I thought I'd ask why the idea of spawned raid encounters wasn't brought up in the vote or anything. Seems a simple way to fix any argument over raid timers etc. would just to have every eligible guild that wants to take a shot at a raid target be allowed to simply spawn it once a week (or whatever the respawn window is). This way all the guilds can get a shot at the mob, but only full guilds that are eligible. I dunno what would constitute eligibility.. more than 30 members in raid lvl range or something.. I dunno, but no 3-man guilds that just want to farm golems or something.

In Velious and Luclin the arguments will get much more heated, especially because you can't really advance at all unless you get the lower raid targets and there are more of them.. but if you could just spawn the mob once a week (must be engaged within 5 minutes, despawns after 20 minutes post-engagement if you fail or something) seems like it would be the best way to handle it. In PoP it gets ridiculous (at least did on fippy) because you literally can't progress without flagging. On fippy that's how the big guilds kept everyone back, by killing the flagging mobs so the higher level encounters were less contested.

Everyone nowadays knows that EQ raiding, while classic yadda yadda is like.. the worst way you can possibly do raiding. Instanced raids make sense (like plane of time) but barring that, then spawned mobs seems reasonable to me.

I dunno, just thought I'd toss that out there.. not sure I'll even raid. I've just been slowly playing with my brother and we're taking our time.

 

What an awful idea. I do not know you and I am not insulting you or your brother but how is that a classic experience or something that we had on the server we are trying to recreate ? Sure its a great idea if we did not want a classic experience but the whole point of the server is to be doing that and this would totally break it.

 

Instancing already got shot down big time.

30 RL people is way too much for a requirment. It only takes about 4-6 RL people boxing to down a dragon. If the smaller guilds get cblocked out of the rotation then they are under NO obligation to follow it.

I support a FFA week which I have stated before.

 

Worst thread ever. How are we ever going to emulate AK with people like this around?

 

Well, not exactly. The idea is that any guild can kill the mob while it's FFA, including guilds on the rotation. So basically there would be a week of competition and that's where new guilds can get on the rotation.

The problem is that it could become too competitive with rotation guilds poopsocking a raid mob so that no one else can possibly get on the rotation. Not sure if that would happen since I can't see the future. If that becomes a serious problem we could just ban rotation guilds from engaging the mob for 12 hours or so from the time it spawns to give guilds some chance to get on the rotation. I agree with Adaephon that there needs to be some challenge to getting on the rotation otherwise we're going to see 10+ tiny guilds all on the Nagafen rotation since it's so trivial to kill and the loot is so good, even into Velious.

Maybe later we can require a kill of every single raid target (Nagafen, Vox, fear/hate minis) to get on a rotation... but right now that's obviously not feasible.

There's not going to be a perfect solution immediately, we should just set some rules with the ability to be flexible and tweak them as problems arise. It seems like everyone here is pretty levelheaded and able to compromise.

 

Challenge to get on a rotation is kinda the opposite of what a rotation is about isnt it? Personally Id rather see it just FFA at all times, but forcing a new guild to "poopsock" to get on a rotation when others just had to send a tell and ask seems a bit much? Im just playing devils advocate here.

 

Just to point something out, there was never intended to be a FFA week on AK's VT/Seru rotations. And sure enough we didn't have such a thing until the final year or so of the server.

The only reason we allowed FFA was after the split of Dark Conquest. Their old raid slots were suddenly freed up, and rather than alter the raid calendar, which was planned at least half a year in advance, Temerity/Destiny leadership decided to leave it open to off-night crews.

The actual accepted practice was for a new contending guild to "request" a given raid mob on the forums, usually a week or two ahead of time in order to secure approval in a timely manner. If they succeeded in killing, they were to then be offered a spot in the amended rotation.

This created a more civil approach to what is called "sniping," because guilds were informally obliged to allow a capable force the chance to prove themselves.

It also avoided the potential ugliness that can occur with FFA. As a raid leader on AK, I can attest that the fewer the number of guilds you have that are competing for open targets, the more heated their relations become. It becomes an "Us vs Them" mindset.

Nobody wins when the game becomes more about personal insults than immersive fantasy.

Shoot it down if you'd like. But this was the way it was done on AK.

/shrug

 

This is the biggest joke I've ever seen.

 

My dad can beat up your dad!

(makes just as much sense as half the nonsense in this thread)

 

Guys, feel free to be helpful and suggest something - or at least explain yourselves, rather than just leaving a negative/cryptic comment.

This isn't Al'kabor of old, i'm sorry to say. And this isn't p99 (thank god) This is TAKP - People have voted for a rotation.

At the present moment, there are 2 Dragons and 3 guilds already wanting a piece of the action. There's not much to go around. So if you have a solution spit it out or piss off. We ALL want something that's fair for everyone involved.

Based on the MAJORITY of what i've read - This is what seems most fair for EVERYONE:

(EXAMPLE)
NAG/Vox Rotations ---- > SD -> DR -> Fallout -> 'OPEN'/continued ->

-- If your Guild/Group wants to try to take down a Dragon, schedule it on the forums for the 'OPEN' week ((5-7 days in advance)), if nothing gets scheduled, then the regular server raiding rotation keeps on going that week, picking back up with whichever guild was next in line.
-- If the dragon is not successfully killed by the 'scheduling guild' within 12 hours. the rotation picks back up and resumes with the next guild on the list. (in this example the 'Open' week, after 12 hours if still up the Dragon would belong to <SD>
-- Once a new guild has made it's way in to the rotation for that dragon, the 'OPEN' spot gets pushed back to the 5th week etc..
-- Each individual dragon should have to be killed to enter the rotation for that specific dragon. Simply because one can kill Vox doesn't mean they can kill Nagafen / visa-versa. This is fair for those already in the rotation who have proven themselves worthy of a spot.
-- If 2 different guilds schedule on the same 'OPEN' week one can go for VOX and one can go for NAG. 12 hr window still applies after which, the rotation guilds pick back up.
-- All ROTATION dragons are SAFE for that specific guild for a 24 hour window. If left up, the Dragon becomes FFA
-- If it's your dragon, you are responsible for the time table of that dragon.
-- if you steal someone else's dragon, you miss the next rotation, if you do it again you are kicked from rotation (have to earn your way back in OR GM's could get involved.
-- To break in to the rotation you've gotta do this on your own, the rotation guilds can't help you. If you decide to make it open to other server randoms, that's up to you.

What say you TAKP? Let's put something in stone here, and move on. Please contribute seriously or just drop an Aye , or a Nay WITH a reason (if you don't have a better solution)
Remember, it wont always be like this. Theres only 2 dragons!!!! Only other option is FFA/PEWPSOCK
This system may appear complicated at first glance but it rly isn't. Anyone can join, all you have to do is schedule on an open week, and make it happen.

 

Great post Oiwon, if it doesn't work then we see what happens. Do not see why this is being dragged out at all really. Atm one guild is on rotation so the other two have to kill a dragon to get in on it. Aside from that it doesn't matter as there is no other group of players able to do this currently.

 

i like the idea of the open week. i don't like scheduling it, though. guilds looking to enter the rotation should have to compete with each other a bit.

if no new guilds kill the dragon on the FFA week within 12 hours of it's spawning then it becomes a true FFA with the rotation guilds competing with each other for the kill. FTE rules.

best of both worlds, imo -- a rotation but with a competitive week for the people that don't like rotations.

.... actually, heck maybe a bit off the wall here, but maybe every other week could be an FFA week instead of just having one week FFA per rotation cycle?

 

It's a good suggestion thanks. And if others wanted, I'm definitely open to the 'OPEN' week being a 12 hour window that is open for Aspiring Guild's to compete, but after the 12 hours the ROTATION would then have to pick back up and continue regardless of if the Dragon was killed or not.

The server has spoken and the majority want a Raiding Rotation not a FFA environment.
(If people want it to be a full on FFA during that weeks window/after the window expires -> people need to speak up)
Just trying to keep it simple and in perspective.