New player 3 box Advice

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ugmar, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Ugmar

    Ugmar New Member

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    4
    Hello all and good morning.

    I am looking at this server and wanted to get a little advice. I have read through all the more recent forums and have gotten a fair concept of some of the general advice. I was also a fairly active player from launch up until the beginning of PoP so I am excited to check out content I never really got to do, but that still feels more like what I remember than the current state of live.

    I am looking to 3 box. I would doubt that I would be terribly concerned with Raid viability on my trio as I think that is a long way off for my play schedule (new infant so I will play when he allows and the times I can sit down for hours on end are going to be few and far between). To that end I want a trio that can do item camps, and can EXP with just them. Though I would prioritize camping ability over EXP speed.

    My preference would be to main play a Bard or Enc. I have never played either one, but I have boxed 3-4 toons, done camps, and such on live as well as on PEQ (had a bunch of server first raid kills with my 4 box when it was very low population and ToV was the end game). My past experience has largely revolved around a melee oriented group that tanked/spanked and out lasted the mobs.

    What I want to know is what 3 comps come to mind, and how hard would they be to play. It sounds like bards do not have melody here so if I play that as my main I know it will be a high time investment in the box. I also have 0 experience doing the charmed monster thing and while I understand it from watching people do it / reading guides about it, I have not tried it out myself.

    The 3 boxes I have considered most heavily are Bard/Cleric/Mag and Bard/Cleric/Enc.

    My concerns on the mag are that I would have end game viability drop off on the Mag (the upside is that a mag and Cleric can PL up a tank once I have gear farm, plat, etc. Plus a pocket CoH toon isnt a terrible thing.

    My concerns on the enc version are that I wont be able to use both an Enc and a Bard well together due to actions per minute concerns more than anything else. If I am playing actively on the bard will it be too dangerous to pet charm on the chanter, or will the bard have the ability to snap mez the pet so I can toggle over and get it back?

    Other combos I kicked around were Enc/Cleric/Druid, Bard/Cleric/Shaman, Bard/Cleric/SK(or War), Bard/Cleric/Necro, Enc/Cleric/Mag

    On past 4 boxes I found that cani dancing, cleric healing, plus tank/melee dps positioning meant that I was struggling on my actions per minute. I lost efficiency on the tank and dps as it often took the majority of my focus to properly debuff/ heal/ cani dance on challenging fights and it left my other 1-2 toons largely auto attacking until stuff was on lock.

    Any thoughts / suggestions / insights would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks and I look forward to setting this up in the near future.

    - Ugmar
     
  2. Bragon

    Bragon Well-Known Member

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    Mag / cleric / enc.

    Bard is a bit of a hell to 3 box efficiently imo. I've seen this 3 box tear through some serious stuff. It has crazy DPS, good tanking via charm pet, and the best heals in the game + Mind buffs + HP buffs + Rez + incredible CC and pulling ability with pacify and mez etc.

    You don't get ports so you can substitute the cleric for a druid but it will make it more difficult.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  3. Nilduz

    Nilduz Member

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    What Bragon said.

    And adopt a bard friend :)
     
  4. Yaximus

    Yaximus Member

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    I would third the mag / enc / clr. Very solid combo which will let you focus on the ench without much input required from the other two. It obviously doesn't have everything but no combo does.
     
  5. Videri-Tala

    Videri-Tala Well-Known Member

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    Regarding APM, you might be able to focus on certain characters for certain tactics. You don't have to play the same way in each encounter, and you don't have to be at maximum efficiency.

    For an enchanter, it's nice to have a bard in the trio. You can let the bard run mez song on the pet such that if charm breaks, mez automatically hits it on the next tick.
     
  6. Linkamus

    Linkamus Well-Known Member

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    Enchanter / Cleric / Mage is great like others have said. Though swapping out the mage for an SK, Pal, or Ranger is amazing as well. I'd actually argue that SK is best due to being able to FD pull.
     
  7. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Yeah, enc/mag/clr is a very powerful trio for leveling and camping. If you charm, it always will be. BL/mag/clr is a nice alternative if you don't like charming; less CC, more DPS from the BL+pet.

    A bard-focused, low-APM trio that's good at camping named in dungeons? *ponder* I suppose supporting the bard with a healer and a pet class would work pretty well. If APM is a concern, I probably wouldn't choose a shaman as the healer or BL as the pet class; canni-dancing and positioning melee boxes require constant fiddling. So: bard/clr-or-dru/mag-or-nec, I guess. Of those, bard/clr/mag seems the easiest and most powerful. In Luclin, once druids get a mini CH, bard/dru/nec might do very well, too. Ports are always nice.
     
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  8. tomgggg

    tomgggg New Member

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    May I suggest you consider the combo of beastlord, enchanter, druid? This is the trio that I use and I have found it be fun, versatile, and pretty strong.

    Leveling I spent nearly all my time in dungeons Najena- Sol A - Kaesora - Sol B - Seb- HS, and such. I was able to progress through all of these dungeons as I leveled.

    With this trio I often charm and I find it to be manageable for sure. The beastlord can get agro in almost any situation by casting blind, and can also take hits fairly well, and the pet is great DPS. With a charmed pet and a BL pet I can chew through mobs quite quickly. Also the beastlord is low APM and is easy. In addition, with the beastlord you can focus on the enchanter in intense situations and still get plenty of DPS even as mobs get moved around, because the pet will just keep going.

    I also have tons of utility such as ports, shammy-lite spells, the ability to use two summoned pets or 1 summoned and 1 charmed. In addition, once you hit level 60 on all three, the trio becomes it's own mana machine with C2, Gob, PoTg, and SP all giving mana regen.

    This trio is not the trifecta of power that enc/cleric/plate tank provides, but it is nonetheless a powerful combination. If you want a group that can crawl through any dungeon you please on your way to 60, then bst/dru/ench will take you there.

    Also having a druid in the group means you get succor, so when you get one of those bad charm breaks you just might be able to survive.
     
  9. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    198
    SK - Cleric - bard will allow you to mostly focus on the bard. You can pull with bard, tag with SK. Macro two taunt spells and hit auto attack. Use the bard to twist and attack and Cleric to CH.
     
  10. Ugmar

    Ugmar New Member

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    Thank you all.

    I think from all the feedback I am starting with a cleric / enc / mag.

    I still think long term I might swap the mage for a tank or bard. That being said I was forcefully reminded when I loaded up my 3 level 1s just how brutal original EQ is. I think my starter setup being caster heavy is great and I can easily PL a replacement before the AA grind if I want and will have the gear to make it simpler.

    I recently did a druid / BL duo and it's definitely solid. I just don't want to repeat that. Swapping a BL in instead of the mag sounds interesting, but I have not done a mage ever and I'm kinda liking the idea of trying it out.

    Thanks again, and anyone else who wants to weigh in please do. I'm also open to any other advice people want to toss around.

    Have a pleasant day,

    Ugmar
     
  11. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    Everybody wants to be like Bum
     
  12. Loraen

    Loraen Well-Known Member

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    You should roll monk and support us in the quest to unnerf Monk AC!

    More seriously, I think this era is all about Cleric + Enchanter for grouping. Clerics get huge increases in mana pool and FT while Complete Healing still takes 400 mana - and even heals more HP! It's also a great time for Enchanter charm and pacify. Verant's PoP 'all spells basically land and control with immunities' resist system means that Enchanters crush any content that isn't immune, and most of it isn't. Charming is a lot more interesting on Project 1999 where your charmed pet can actually resist stun. And they have great synergy: cleric HP buffs and 1s stuns keep the enchanter alive, and enchanter mind buffs keep the cleric FM. Enchanter/Cleric is so strong that you can fit literally any third box in, with Warrior, SK, Mage, Beastlord, Ranger being the most popular choices. But Tarkon makes it work with a rogue!

    Darchon once wrote me a 3 page esssay about how the classes are more balanced in PoP. When boxing solo, I totally disagree. CLR/ENC/X will stomp any other combination by miles. Something like BST/DRU/MAG or MNK/SHM/DRU simply does not compare. But when raiding, the balance suddenly improves massively. Enchanters and Clerics are still good, but they don't stomp Wizards and Monks and Bards and such they way they do while grouping. And really, does group performance matter? All the best gear comes from raiding, and with rotations most everyone can get in without egregious time committments. Platinum is pretty worthless unless you want to dump a lot on tradeskills . . . so that you can make more semi-worthless platinum. Unless you want to have 1 of every class, all that really matters is raiding IMO.
     
  13. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Hoo-boy. Better brace yourself for the unabridged version.
     
  14. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

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    Lol please post
     
  15. Thunderace

    Thunderace Member

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    Welcome to the server Ugmar!

    enc + bard + cleric sounds like a lot of fun. If you figure out how to maximize the bard/enc combo, it would be a unique play experience.

    If you roll a mage, it will be less challenging.

    pro tip - stay away from gnomes and you will win EQ.

    hit up Mars in-game, free robe of the oracle! looks classic :D
     
  16. Loraen

    Loraen Well-Known Member

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    239
    The intent was to show that I basically agree with him, with the exception of all combinations of Cleric+Enchanter+X for group content. But I applaud your increase in trolling skills.
     
  17. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    I think the godliness that is enc+clr will be tempered somewhat in Luclin. Trash levels increase, while chanter charms still cap at level 53, so more camps become charm-unfriendly. Trash hitpoints go up while their DPS stays pretty flat. New spells, weapons and AAs close the gap somewhat between PC and charmpet DPS. Druids and shammies get mini CHs, loosening the cleric stranglehold on efficient healing.

    In PoP, though, charm is just ridiculous. Its only real limitation is that a lot of good PoP pets have significant MR. They break charm constantly with just tash; enc+clr+X will have a hard time in some fun zones unless X is a mage or shaman for the malo line.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
    Linkamus likes this.
  18. Dane

    Dane People Like Me

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    Enc + Cleric + Ranger is a fun trio in PoP. Even with pets breaking often, the ranger can snare and root, step in to tank/WS in a pinch, and also provide ranged Archery dps. Same with Druid, minus the tank/WS, but you get the benefit of more buffs and heals, or another charm pet in Storms if you're feeling saucy.

    I think Enc + Cleric + Knight is a really solid trio in any era. It's the holy trinity. You can take out some beastly summoning mobs that you'd otherwise need to get really lucky with RNG charm duration sans tank.
     
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  19. Ugmar

    Ugmar New Member

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    4
    Just wanted to swing by and say thanks to the kind community members who stopped by to say hi, toss a few buffs, and drop some starter plat on me.

    Trio is at 14 and plan to try breaking the throne room in cb next time I log in.

    Crossing my fingers that I can get the wife to try it too. She started MMOs like 10 years ago but never got to experience EQ. Hopefully I can fix that.

    Have a nice day all.

    Ugmar

    Andelia - Cleric
    Kristoph - Enchanter
    Jobker - Mage
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
    Nilduz likes this.
  20. Tsuchang

    Tsuchang New Member

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    I just joined today and am trying to figure this boxing thing out. There are a lot of classes not mentioned in the previous posts. What about my favorite necromancer? Where would the great root/rot fit in? Add a druid's snare/root/rot and X for comedy relief.
     
  21. Wilshire

    Wilshire New Member

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    Mages for leveling is easy mode. Mage pet is just ridiculous, and combined with cleric buffs, that fire pet will take you to 50 before you can blink, and then an earth pet will take you to 60.

    Everyone has an enchanter. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

    BL are also incredibly powerful like mages but you swap the nuking/utility of a mage for a tankyish OP-In-This-Era class that will make it super easy.

    Clerics... everyone has a cleric too. Enchanter/Cleric is just powerful duo and adding in stuff on top will be good.

    Anything/Enc/Cleric will be super powerful. Mages are easier to add in because you just buff the pet and go. If you play a tank theres plenty of good gear floating around that you can probably get for free... Message me and I will hook you up (Wilshire/Kill/Evilloser/Texas/Maim).

    If I could do it again and have it be super easiest mode ever... BL/Mage/Cleric or BL/Necro/Cleric... two pets + tanky + utility + crazy cleric benefits.
     
  22. Wilshire

    Wilshire New Member

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    The straight melee classes (warrior monk rogue) and wizards (pure nukers) are just very one dimensional in the way they play. Very good at what they do, but when you have a 3 man combo they offer less utility. People tend to play Pet classes and utility classes when they're playing alone because they offer versatility over being the best at something one dimensional.
     
  23. Videri-Tala

    Videri-Tala Well-Known Member

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    I play bst/nec/clr and the necro provides valuable damage, healing, twitching, crowd control, and utility. I think they're a great and perhaps underrated choice. Nec/dru would be awesome. Maybe add a shaman if you like dots, or a bard which could run mana song, or run snare or mez in case of root break. Maybe ranger, and you can fear kite if you don't want to tank it.
     
  24. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    "I was bst before bst was cool" -Bumbum
     
  25. Braven

    Braven New Member

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    I rolled a BST/CLR/NEC. I've recently picked them back up and I'm in to my 30s. Quite honestly, If I had to do it over again, I would absolutely have picked Magician (for a better pet, later pet items, and damage shield), Wizard (for ports), or perhaps a Bard bot over the Necromancer. Necromancers are great, but they just require too much attention to play well. I rolled a DEF CLR so I only really needed the Necro's snare until my 20s when I did the Innoruuk necklace quest line. The clicky snare isn't great, but its workable. I also am a Troll BST, so when I finally manage to do the faction work for the OT hammer I can avoid the absolute need for a porter in-group at all times.

    The trio works great at my level, I just think a Magician works better in practice than the Necro on paper.
     
  26. Tryfan

    Tryfan Well-Known Member

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    Mage would have eventually given you muzzles and made your bst pet better too. But you don't have to stay married to your original trio.

    P.S. there are surprising strengths to a necro people aren't always aware of. One big one on raids is their minimum damage. Necros will be stronger than people realize against Luclin high AC raid mobs.
     
  27. Loraen

    Loraen Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that you should somehow be able to make the necro work without too much trouble by setting up some macros that cast multiple dots and using flash of light regularly on the beastlord so you don't have to reposition. Of course this is coming from the guy who can barely box monk/shaman.

    Also, how can anyone possibly consider monk a 1-dimensional class? I guess on EQ Live monks don't really FD split anything if they have pacify and everyone is used to encounters with 15 offtanked adds. But in this era it seems like one of the most interesting classes. I guess only a fading memories Bard is more interesting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  28. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Beyond the entry level zone every mob in EQLive current expansions are higher than the level cap which makes pacify useless btw. Also all pacifies beyond PoP only limit assist radius, none limit aggro radius anymore, making them even more useless. Their power peaked in PoP, after which they are mostly trash.

    Pure Melee classes like Warrior/Monk/Rogue are all fairly one dimensional at this point IMO. Yes Rogues can SoS around eventually and Monks can FD and pull things.... but when it comes down to it you're autoattacking, repositioning and hitting one combat ability for the majority of the playtime.

    Spell casters like Druids and Enchanters have far more dimensions to them. Even without pacify, pulling with Snare/Root/Egress or Mez/Root/Blur etc. Plus their other roles like healing / DPS / debuffs / charming on Druid or CC / DPS / debuffs / charming on Enchanter.

    One of the biggest strengths of later EQ expansions was the discipline revamp. Prior to GoD (aka all our disciplines here) are linked together in timer so you are limited to using 1 or 2 disciplines of your 10 or so. Plus most are very short duration with very long reuse. Eventually Melee got 5-6 different lines of disciplines that can be used one after another, a few short term buffs and a few short reuse special attack abilities like more powerful flying kicks on a different reuse etc.
     
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  29. showstring

    showstring People Like Me

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    I like the magic split tricks monks can do in this era (without the lvl 65 paci) with a combination of geometry, bio orb and other clickys, sneak/proxy/call for help agro, instant FDing, and of course a bit of RNG luck. Makes it quite fun at times
     
  30. Loraen

    Loraen Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Gates fixed most of the worst imbalances of PoP then. Of course I'm sure they added new ones, but that's half the fun. I think Rob mentioned potentially implementing Gates at some point!

    The cool thing about Monk vs other classes is how much your tactics depend on the situation. The position of the NPCs, the corners, the pathing nodes etc make for a large number of unique situations. In comparison, Shaman for example seems to follow pretty much one algorithm: debuff if you can, heal if you have to, dots with the remaining mana, and chain canni/torpor always. That doesn't mean it's a boring class, not at all, but somehow I feel like Monk lends itself to strategy more than other classes.
     
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