Monk Mitigation Nerf

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dwerger, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Dwerger

    Dwerger New Member

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    Does anybody know the exact time that this server is frozen in time? I know the monk nerf went through on October 16, 2002. Will this nerf eventually hit the server, or is it going to be frozen right before?
     
    Pithy likes this.
  2. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

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    November 2002.
     
  3. kicnlag

    kicnlag Active Member

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    I believe monks are currently "nerfed"
     
  4. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing People Like Me

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    That's right before our code date. PoP launched on October 29th, and AK forked from Live right at launch (or at minimum, a couple of weeks later: we definitely didn't have changes made to things like the raid window in mid-November).

    I played a monk on Al'Kabor. I loved it! But he was made of wet tissue paper, even in highend PoP raiding gear. We hit that sweet spot right in between the initial mitigation nerf and the "oops, maybe we overdid it a bit" backpeddling.

    This thread has a lot of very solid information about how AC and mitigation work on this server. I believe, as Kicnlag says, that the nerf is already active (the goal of this server being to reproduce AK mechanics, not to evolve the mechanics as the game evolved). Monks have a low softcap for mitigation AC, and pathetic returns on AC over the cap.
     
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  5. Oiwon

    Oiwon People Like Me

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    Just FD and let mobs beat on everyone else.. that's what some monks do. ;)
     
    Mambo likes this.
  6. lurari

    lurari Active Member

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    Monks are worse tanks here than Wizards. Forever and always.
     
    Mokli likes this.
  7. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Monks have fantastic dodges -- better than any other class by a significant margin. Block is an awesome skill. Monks will dodge about 24% of incoming attacks on average, compared to 18% for warriors and 16% for knights. They also avoid (The Avatar of War tried to slash YOU, but missed!) about as much as warriors and knights.

    Mitigation is where early PoP-era (hence TAKP) monks suffer. Monks have an AC softcap of 315, compared to 430 for warriors, 403 for knights and 350 for pure casters. At level 60, monks only get 5% returns on AC over their softcap (meaning 20 worn AC over the cap is equivalent to 1 worn AC below the cap), compared to 20% for warriors, 17% for knights and 5% for pure casters. That's right -- monks have lower AC softcaps than wizards and the same overcap returns.

    Most monks in Kunark gear are just starting to bump up against their AC softcap. So a TAKP monk in Kunark gear tanks just about like a P99 monk in Kunark gear. But TAKP monks will realize almost none of the value of the huge AC items they get in Velious; the 60 raw AC from the monk AoW pants only gives monks an effective 3 mitigation AC. Velious is where TAKP monks and P99 monks start to diverge.

    This gets a bit better in PoP; monks' overcap returns increase to about 8% while pure casters stay at 5%. But warriors and knights increase to 33% and 25%, respectively. The mitigation gap between plate tanks and monks actually widens in PoP.

    tl;dr: monks who are used to P99 tanking godmode are in for a rude awakening on TAKP. Monks are kickass DPS and pullers here, but they aren't tanks.
     
    Oiwon, Mokli, Mambo and 1 other person like this.
  8. Oiwon

    Oiwon People Like Me

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    wonder if this is something teh Dev's will consider looking at when the time comes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  9. Faults

    Faults People Like Me

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    Like can we just get our softcap on the level of silk casters (lol)
     
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  10. Haynar

    Haynar Administrator Staff Member

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    To un-nerf monks?

    This has come up several times. And its pretty much a resounding no. This is how monks are. This is how monks will continue to be. Because it is "AKurate".

    Do not make a monk, expecting them to get un-nerfed some day.

    H
     
  11. Barnd0g

    Barnd0g Member

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    Yeah it sounds like p99 monks are too powerful, but I agree Faults it would be nice to get a bump to 350.

    Does anyone know what the soft cap for a p99 monk actually is?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  12. Haynar

    Haynar Administrator Staff Member

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    Yep. I do.
     
  13. Faults

    Faults People Like Me

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    I mean we'd still be nerfed @ 350 - just less neuter/nerfed
     
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  14. Barnd0g

    Barnd0g Member

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    Sounds like a nice compromise :rolleyes:
     
  15. Videri-Tala

    Videri-Tala Active Member

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    Hate to say it, but a dev has answered the question, guys.

    Does the AC soft cap situation here mean that monk players would be advised to focus on other stats once they reach the AC soft cap? Perhaps HP for survivability, strength for damage, agility for avoidance, and resists?
     
  16. lurari

    lurari Active Member

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    This is one of the stupidest and worst class balance changes that was in place during PoP. It took place almost solely during our era, the devs swung the pendulum too far and fixed it super quickly.

    It does make a PoP server a PoP server. And that's what we're here for.
     
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  17. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    Reroll a bst if you want to tank
     
  18. phresh2k3

    phresh2k3 New Member

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    this post kinda got me thinking... originally i was gonna go the faults route mnk/chanter/druid (was trying for the bum before, bst/cleric/mage).

    now after reading this, would bst/chanter/druid be better or even viable? Or should i just stick with mnk?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  19. Oiwon

    Oiwon People Like Me

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    Both good combos, live your dream. If you go BST tho I would change Druid to a Cleric.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  20. Barnd0g

    Barnd0g Member

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    I also use monk/ench/druid most of the time, but for a stronger combo I personally think/use monk/shammy/cleric which is more powerful overall.

    Having said that there are always positives and negatives to any trio and nothing is ever perfect and it comes down to personal preference.

    Everything is situational...
     
  21. Faults

    Faults People Like Me

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    I chose my trio for utilities sake but yes bst will tank better than monk - the bum route of bst/mag/cler is so crazy strong and will continue to be - its mostly about using the tools you allocate to your trio.
     
  22. Yaximus

    Yaximus New Member

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    Relative to other classes currently, my impression seems that monks are still decent though. I guess it sucks knowing it was something that was readjusted shortly after but overall they still seem like a really solid class to play.
     
  23. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    you know what sucks, people who make their traders with fake bum names. Bumblebeetuna gdiaf

    #trademarkinfringement
     
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  24. Pithy

    Pithy People Like Me

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    Play what excites ya! The main difference between monkey and beastie tanking isn't mitigation, it's aggro. BST get snap aggro/pets/slow/buffs, monks get FD.
     
  25. Tryfan

    Tryfan Active Member

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    Bsts get snap aggro? From what?
     
  26. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    incap, 50% slow, nuke, winking, etc
     
    Videri-Tala likes this.
  27. lurari

    lurari Active Member

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    Yup. Same things SK's use - debuffs and dots with a sprinkling of nukes.
     
  28. Tyrion

    Tyrion New Member

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    Flash of light ftw
     
  29. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    I don't have fol scribed, that's for newbs
     
  30. Bum

    Bum I Feel Loved

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    Bst dots are for newbs, don't and won't have a single one scribed, waste of dps