Misc feedback requests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Torven, Aug 27, 2015.

  1. Secrets

    Secrets Well-Known Member

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    At least from what I have seen on live, any 'older' content bosses on Live that get spawned via a quest script stay in place once they kill their target and never reset.

    For example, the Ry'Gorr fort event - the mobs stay in place once spawned, and never 'return home' on reset unless their script/AI dictates it. A common shady tactic to weaken people contesting Tormax on TLPs was to spawn the event and train the orcs to the Kael zoneline, where they would stay until killed.
     
  2. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Necrobump, and maybe you already have this answer, but I stumbled across this today:

    [Wed Jun 25 22:48:46 2008] Zorblak delivers a critical blast! (9492)
    [Wed Jun 25 22:48:46 2008] You deliver a critical blast! (9492)
    [Wed Jun 25 22:48:46 2008] Utdaan is hit by an enormous blast of magical energies.
    [Wed Jun 25 22:48:58 2008] Utdaan tells you, '5979'
    [Wed Jun 25 22:49:04 2008] You told Utdaan, 'OK, that crit message lied. It said I did 9492, but it didn't.'

    63% seems like a curiously arbitrary number, but Utdaan is a ranger so I doubt he had a rune or spellshield up.
     
  3. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Yeah, I could see that 63% was the answer at level 65. It however scaled with level. Lower levels were reduced less. I have VERY little data on sub-50 pvp casts, so the scaling I put in is a rough estimate. Spell level determined the reduction, not caster level.

    I've gotten more logs recently, so I suppose I could look again some day. It's hard to search for though.
     
  4. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Ah, interesting. I don't suppose "are level 34 nukes scaling correctly in PVP" is a burning question anyway.
     
  5. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    So is anyone able to describe in detail how the Emperor room traps worked? More specifically: when exactly do they spawn, and under what conditions they despawn.

    Live may have changed; and it's tedious and time consuming to test there anyway. It's easy enough to get something mostly right, but I don't do 'mostly' if I can help it.

    edit: actually just give me a brain dump of everything you know of this encounter. Sony changed Emp's disease resist so god knows what else they changed
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  6. Mechaike

    Mechaike Well-Known Member

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    From my limited memory:

    The clickup area ("rug room") trap was avoidable if you hugged the wall out of the room. The trigger area shouldn't cover the entire room. It was disarmable by rog obviously but I don't know if tried with other classes. Speculation- it may have repopped quickly, but short of seeing logs from a rogue with success messages, dunno. We typically just had a rog spam disarm traps until the herd moved into emp area.

    I don't have any recollection of being hit by the trap effects in the emp area by latecomers, but I was always in one of the hallway near Emp, and was likely out of range even if it did happen. Typically the mobs would respawn and we didn't take latecomers anway!

    No clue if this helps Torven...
     
  7. Elroz

    Elroz I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    wasn't there an invisible 1-way wall from the prep room --> emp room? If so, I'm guessing it blocked the trap because I don't ever remember the trap being an issue once we were in the emp room. We always moved in and spread out along the wall and pulled blood to the corner to kill there. You could hug that wall and not get agro. Was like a 10 min? timer until emp activated. His untargetable form always showed holding a sword. During emp, we pulled him to the back right corner of the room and hid clerics along that ledge right below where we tanked him. We tanked/cc'd all the adds in the front right corner / along the right side wall behind clerics. That's about all I remember :\
     
  8. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    I think there was a lot of misinformation floating around about the trap. Contrary to prevailing opinion, for example, stepping on the rug didn't trigger anything. I think the trap was probably not active under normal circumstances, although there was reportedly something in the room that rogues could sense and disarm. Perhaps it triggered when mobs in the Emp room were aggro, or when Blood died.
     
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  9. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    There's a DoT curse trap (or invisible man thingy anyway), and then there are 4 traps in the corners of the room that cast knockups that appear when the golem is aggro.
     
  10. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

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  11. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Questions regarding DoTs and hate on AK:

    If you DoTed a mob then FD mem wiped, blurred it or otherwise lost aggro to it, would DoT ticks re-add you to the mob's hate list?

    If not, any idea if the DoT's damage credit still applied when determining kill ownership?
     
  12. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Yes. But zoning or camping seemed to truly orphan the dot.
     
  13. Elroz

    Elroz I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    shortly after the "blur after 2 minutes of FD" change, it was possible to use disease cloud, fd til blur, then stand and the mob would re-agro and come single no matter what npcs were around it. I used that bug on the very first progression server to single pull chardok royals to the entrance and then got suspended for a week because of it. They changed it a while after that, but can confirm up til that point that mobs re-agro'd from dot's even after a successful blur. They didn't re-agro until the actual next tick of the DoT though.

    I did notice on TAKP that I'll take a faction hit if I have a DoT on a mob while I'm FD'd, I was thinking on live that only happened if your DoT tick actually got the killshot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  14. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Ok, I could have sworn I saw a dev post years ago that explained that DoTs used to apply the full hate of the spell on cast, then it was later made to apply per tick; but I can't find it anymore. I think it may have been on a shaman website that recently went down.

    Anybody recall anything about this?

    Our spell counters hate is very wrong though, so the old posts I've seen regarding DoTs being insane aggro could be from that.
     
  15. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    https://beastlords.org/index.php?topic=2506.0;nowap seems to disprove my recollection with prejudice. Makes me wonder what the hell I read 3 years ago to make me think otherwise.

    I did dig up some old dev comments that make be think that the hate system I developed is less accurate than I thought however. Bleh. Such an impossible job.
     
  16. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    DoTs definitely, without question, added hate each tick on Al'Kabor. Here's an experiment I did on Al'Kabor testing something else (FD's weird tendency to lower hate dramatically even when the blur failed):

     
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  17. Elroz

    Elroz I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    In 2008 or so, necromancers were extremely good DPS (maybe highest in the game at that point) because of all their dot's that stacked + all their focus / crit affliction etc. You could mem something like 8 dots and use 3 or 4 clicky dots and have them all stacked at once. I can say for certain that after dots were on for a couple ticks, if you had a big crit round, the mob would summon you immediately after. I know that's quite a while after our timeline, but it's in line with what that beastlord is claiming.

    edit : Looks like RW beat me by 2 seconds!
     
  18. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    I did find evidence to suggest that the removal of disease counter hate (not poison counter hate, which was removed later) happened in mid-Luclin before our time. Unfortunately Sony either didn't mention it in a patch note or the notes for that day were lost.

    Does anybody recall if disease based DoTs aggroed less than poison DoTs on AK? (when they landed, not per tick)
     
  19. Pithy

    Pithy I Feel Loved

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    I don't have logs, Torv, but my strong recollection from maining a shaman in Luclin and PoP on Live was that disease DoTs were far less initial hate than poison DoTs. Even high-damage disease DoTs were safe as houses. Stacking even one poison DoT on a warrior-tanked raid mob was usually a death sentence, though. Perhaps some AK necros could comment on their recollection of the hate generated by, say, Funeral Pyre vs. Blood of Thule.
     
  20. Elroz

    Elroz I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    During Velious on live, Pox of bertoxx was nasty nasty agro up front iirc - may be a good point of reference if shaman from AK don't recall that spell being bad
     
  21. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    It's hard to say, because mostly the straw that broke the camel's back with shaman aggro (because of the DA-like effect of even a non-blurring FD on aggro, necros didn't struggle with the hate on their DoTs in the same way) was a DoT tick or debuff attempt. Poison DoTs were definitely drawing much more hate than disease DoTs were, but I couldn't say whether that difference was due to an initial aggro bonus or because poison DoTs often did three times the damage of their disease counterparts.

    When we discussed disease counter aggro on this board a couple years ago, I said that the slow "felt like" more aggro than cripple, but that was a highly subjective assessment that could easily have been wrong. For one thing, cripple is almost always going in after slow, when the tank has built more aggro, and seldom with the same level of push-the-envelope urgency.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  22. robregen

    robregen Administrator Staff Member

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    Does anyone know what the respawn time on Vex Thal trash. Live has it like a hour including the first key mob. Several post back in 2003 - 2005 says a few hours.
     
  23. Elroz

    Elroz I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    I remember racing against respawns on full trash clears, around an hour sounds right to me. I think the Va Dyn Khar (or whatever the first key mobs name was) was like 4 hour respawn though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  24. robregen

    robregen Administrator Staff Member

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    yeah couple of post says 6 hours.
     
  25. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    So the 2005 post on Tem boards includes some quotes from secondary sources but no comments on AKuracy of the source material so take with a grain of salt:

    Links to wayback archives of what he is talking about:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20050205031645/http://www.rpgexpert.com:80/280.html

    http://web.archive.org/web/20050205031645/http://www.rpgexpert.com:80/281.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
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  26. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

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    I don't recall being able to kill the key mob before the first door more than once a raid night, so I lean towards that.

    Also for trash, we were always clearing and crawling quickly to beat respawns, so 1 hour or less seems accurrate with the sheer number of hitpoints and splits you got. 30 minutes could be correct honestly. 90 minutes on North wing trash seems long to me.

    I remember all gater trash being stunnable via spell as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  27. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Regular, static trash:

    "A little over an hour." I wrote this in a Tem forum post the evening after we sat around in TVX's wing waiting on Va Xakra repops for keys.

    I'll take a look at some logs and see if I can pin it down exactly.

    Va Dyn Khar:

    In a log, Zorblak mentions him being about an hour. So he was probably the same time as regular trash, like the other key mobs (Va Xakras).

    I do have a log in which someone asks if he's back up, and a ranger says yes, just a bit over 2 hours after we killed him. So even if Zorblak is wrong (unlikely, IMO), he was two hours maximum.

    Trap mobs:

    The two trap mobs in TVK's foyer respawned 44 minutes after they were killed. I'm guessing all the trap mobs in the zone were the same.
     
  28. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Actually, I'm looking at a map (link), and it looks like these two mobs were actually static? Is that right?

    If so, maybe regular trash mobs are 44 minutes and the key mobs (VDK, Va Xakras) are a little over an hour. I'll look through some logs and see if I can get a definite answer.
     
  29. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing I Feel Loved

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    Okay, I looked through logs, and I believe all the static trash, except key mobs, is roughly 44 minutes. 44 minutes is what I have in my notes for the TVK guards, and here is one of the 4-arms next to the click-up for AHR respawning after a couple of slow Blob2 kills:

    [Sat Feb 18 20:00:29 2006] Zun Senshali has been slain by Viva!
    [Sat Feb 18 20:00:29 2006] You gained raid experience!

    [Sat Feb 18 20:44:38 2006] Mangroas tells the raid, 'pop by pillar'

    The Va Xakras and VDK are probably a little longer. The trap mobs might have a different timer as well. I'll see what I can find, but this will be harder to search for.
     
  30. robregen

    robregen Administrator Staff Member

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    On live, the traps mobs stays up for about 37 minutes before they despawned. I timed that on live. various traps throughout the zone are shorter than 37 minutes so it was possible to trigger the trap on an already spawned mobs.