Login Server Account Limit

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tolixs, Dec 8, 2014.

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  1. tolixs

    tolixs New Member

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    I'm all about following the rules, but some rules are left open to change for a good reason. And in this instance, it isn't even a rule change, its merely a technical limitation on the account creation(at this point, since the 3 limit rule was on toons logged in). It's not like we are asking for MQ2 to be allowed or anything silly like that. As far as " use some wisdom when creating our trios ", imo that is very short sighted, and has nothing to do with wisdom. Many people on eq enjoy a multitude of different toons at different times. Even more so it seems on eqmac there was an abundance of people who had a wide variety of toons. It just seems logical to me that instead of crippling players trio matching, we have the tools at our disposal to take care of the issue to allow everyone to enjoy their choice of characters while still maintaining the actual ruleset that is laid down.
     
  2. atri

    atri New Member

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    I'll go on record saying this is definitely not a problem I want to see solved. Managing any number of accounts has overhead and costs associated with it. This is free and we are volunteers. I don't want you to have unlimited accounts because it makes it harder for me.

    So I am putting development of a character mover on hold until this discussion is resolved.
     
  3. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

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    991
    Is it just possible that we allow multiple forum accounts? If we nix that rule it may just be simplest. Or is that too much of a security issue from the enforcement/development side?
     
  4. furst

    furst Member

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    375
    pretty sure the sql would look something like this the switch characters from account to account

    update cd character_data set cd.account_id = (SELECT id FROM account where name = {new account name}) WHERE cd.name = {character};
     
  5. atri

    atri New Member

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    This doesn't take into account a number of other issues, as well as security issues, plus our security model does not allow the website to execute any SQL. The website masks a local (127.0.0.1) API to another another service that only allows calls from 127.0.0.1 to work with the databases outside of the forum. But thanks for the SQL help.

    Examples:
    Are there slots left on the target account?
    Is the character online to prevent duping?
    Is the update actually successful?
    Are both accounts owned by the same forum id?
    etc....
     
  6. Theus

    Theus Well-Known Member

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    402
    I agree with the three box (three characters logged in at the same time) limit because it seems very hard to effectively manually box more than three toons at once. However, I would like to be able to have my forum account to be able to have five or six log in accounts for two reason. First, I trade skill and I forage a lot. I need a lot of mules to be able to store all of my stuff. Second, I like the flexibility of be able to play differing combinations of characters. It would be nice to be able to have enough accounts that one need only to have one (or at most two) real characters (non-mules) per account. Players being able to self transfer characters from one account to another account would solve the combination issue, but I have no desire to have to pester a GM to to this for me. Also, this character transfer solution does not solve the 24 character limit for those that need a lot of mules.
     
  7. Fox

    Fox New Member

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    +1 - I'm in the same boat as Theus.
     
  8. Circe

    Circe New Member

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    Without wishing to raise the temperature of the discussion, I'd be interested to hear from members of the majority who voted for the three-box limit. (I voted for two myself, but like everyone else I'm very happy to accept the majority decision.)

    I get the impression that a lot of this discussion is being prompted by those who would prefer to have been able to box more toons?

    My personal feeling is that the point of the three-box limit is to encourage co-operative playing, and especially grouping, instead of normalising the idea that every player can be self-sufficient all the time (except when raiding). So perhaps there's an argument for saying that arranging things so that everyone can conveniently have their own porters/rezzers/mules/buffbots, or so that they can set up their own trios however they want, is out of keeping with the spirit of the vote. Back on Al'Kabor I used to enjoy being able to help people out with ports or buffs or rezzes, in the days before everyone (else) had extra accounts so they never had to ask.

    Again, not wishing to criticise anyone else's approach -- just wondering whether anyone else is reasonably happy with things as they are. If it's only me, no problem.
     
  9. wharhogg

    wharhogg Member

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    348
    I voted for three for the same reasons as you listed......having 6 box macro'ers does nothing good for the server. But having a few different toons to choose from makes sense for me. Without the easymode leveling exploits found on AK these people would put in some serious time to have multiple high level toons. I always go by the work=reward system (which is why I hate what wow has become with a burning passion). Making SIngle forum accounts have more than three accounts would be the easiest solution.....it will allow devs to track what accounts have what toons and how/when/where they are being used. But never allow more than three in game at any given time from the same IP. If they see more than three toons in game at the same time from the same account but different ips they could flag it and have gms look into it.
     
  10. iance

    iance New Member

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    767
    the reason I have not commented much on this is because I think 3 is the perfect balance. Although I dont really have a problem with people boxing more, it makes farming a bit too easy and completely removes the necessiity to group. It is also a population thing. If this server in the future has a very active community (comparable to P99, for instance), I would also not really have a problem with limiting it to just 2 or 1 accounts, but that is just me personally.

    I think not allowing MQ2 is already a huge relief to me. At least now you need actual skill to pull off multiboxing and its not just about programming your robot the way you want it to. This is also the reason why, in theory, i wouldnt mind more than 3 accounts. BUT, there WILL be people who already will be using the 3 box limit to monopolize content. So, especially for the early days, with just classic, or even kunark, more than 3 boxes is just a terrible idea.

    You need to find the perfect balance. I think 3 is a good start :)
     
  11. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

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    I just want to point out to some of the folks posting here this discussion is NOT about changing the boxing limit, it is about changing the login server account limit. They are two completely different things and I don't think people are grasping that concept.
     
  12. iance

    iance New Member

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    767
    ahh my bad, i misunderstood.

    Well I guess on topic:

    I dont think it hurts if people have access to more than three accounts. I also preferred having multiple station accounts so i could box every character with every character. Ofcourse right now this is how we ''bottleneck'' that people can not play more than 3 accounts at the same time, but if on Server Side it is possible to limit to 3 accounts (I think P99 and SoD are doing that, albeit with different numbers of accounts) then go for it.

    It is also not awfully difficult to set up multiple different forum accounts from different IPs, so I think the current system is also not perfect in limiting 3 boxing, but no system really can be in the times of VPN tunnels and proxies... But like you said, 3 boxing is not the issue here...

    For me personally though, if I dont have the choice to have every character on a seperate account, I can work around that. Like, 1 account is the healer account, 1 the tank account, 1 the dps account, etc.

    And like Circe mentioned, there is also other aspects of this to consider. You have to find the perfect balance between having everything available to everyone and the actual need to be social and work together on stuff. I can also understand the other side here, some people are ''completionists'' to a certain extent, and need to have all their bases covered :)
     
  13. surron

    surron People Like Me

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    552
    I am in favor of unlimited accounts but still enforcing a 3 boxing limit.


    So I was able to create a 2nd forum account at the same IP, just needed a different email. Even if the IP was restricted at account creation (instead of account log in) a vpn would circumvent this issue easily, as all I would need to do is one time create an account and the 3 login accounts.

    Controlling the boxing limit based on forum account is not a good idea, because of the issue stated above. To be able to box more than 3 all I would need to do is vpn one time and create the proper login server accounts. At that point without IP restriction at the game server level I could box unlimited toons.

    Changing the system to IP restrictions at the server level (like P99) instead of forum server would still not circumvent the vpn issue, however it would cause people to use a vpn every time they wanted to play.

    As it stands there is no way to restrict boxing on any server (P99 included) it is up to the community to report suspicious activity. I understand the average user may not be able to set up a vpn to play EQ but they sure as hell can use hidemyip.com and go to this forum and create a 2nd account no problem.

    tldr; IP restriction is needed at the server level regardless of account limit
     
  14. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

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    2,469
    Considering that no server can automate the enforcement perfectly. Any box limit on any server involves a level of honesty and honor.
    Along with a level of trust that other players and server staff affords everyone else.
    Visually it is quite easy to see someone boxing beyond limits.
    Especially with some tools that I will not describe openly that we have and are developing to monitor things.
    There is plans to refactor what the limits are enforced against. I agree based off forum alone is not the greatest.

    I will be quite frank here. I catch someone boxing past 3. It won't pay off for them in the long run.
    Also as far as multiple forum accounts. It is in the rules that this is not allowed.
    Anyone caught doing this is subject to getting both accounts and associated game assets deleted. (maybe after one has put some time into these toons so it stings more? lol)
     
  15. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

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    991
    Ok so end of discussion then it seems. Just to clarify no one in this thread was talking about raising box limits. It was all talk about account limit, something the community did not discuss originally from what I remember. So is the end of the discussion? No more because there is a rule in place? Or is there any chance of things changing given the huge community support behind having more then 3 accounts to use? Or is the dev team thinking of potential alternatives? Or have they just heard the commmnity and slammed the hammer and said rules are rules.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Don't box more than 3, and don't make multiple forum accounts. Period.

    We are discussing the account limit per forum account.
     
  17. atri

    atri New Member

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    94
    I already "slammed the hammer" awhile back.

    I find your spin of your post to be immature and insulting to the staff that work very hard to try and make a place where people can enjoy playing EQ. Agree or Disagree with any of us at any time, we have disagreements between ourselves as well. But continue to make backhanded comments and you'll find yourself in a bad place with me.
     
  18. iance

    iance New Member

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    767
    cant we be civil here?
     
  19. Theus

    Theus Well-Known Member

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    I am very happy to read the account limit is being discussed. When we had the vote on box limits, I thought the box limit and the account limit would have to be the same. I am very happy to learn that it may be possible for them to be different. I had voted for a box limit of 4 thinking the box limit and account limit must be the same. I am for a box limit of 3 and account limit of 6, so I voted for 4. I never thought to bring up this issue (making box limit and account limit different). I am so happy that someone else did. Thank you.
     
  20. Tiny

    Tiny Guest

    MOD Note:

    To everyone, please move your personal arguments off of this forum. Settle it in PMs or move the discussion to RnF.
     
  21. Tiny

    Tiny Guest

    3 boxes per login session max, game GMs will enforce this policy with extreme prejudice. If you box more than that we will find out and you will be banned. Zero tolerance on this important game balancing issue, which I believe will help us create the spirit of cooperation that was a hallmark of AK and made it so very different than any other EQ server.

    Please don't test us on this issue, we have ways of detecting cheaters and will be actively scanning for exploits of any kind. Hackers and cheaters will be dealt with swiftly and severely.
     
  22. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

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    991
    I will make this one post responding to Atri, hopefully without getting it deleted or sent to RNF. I decided to post, rather then PM so that people could see my response about his thoughts.

    I did not attempt to make that post to stir up anger within the dev community, and specifically not you Atri. I was just joking around with the hammer comment. If I wrote the post crudely enough to upset you then I apologize for that. I didn't realize that you had absolute final say on this issue, and the topic had been open for a couple days still. I was just looking for further clarification, that's all. And I think a lot of people in the community were as well. My understanding is that NO, the 3 account thing is a pretty serious rule. And that there may be discussion later on about it, but not for now. Ultimately I have a lot of respect to towards the devs and people that work on the project and that has always been my stance.
     
  23. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

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  24. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

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    2,469
    No single dev or admin has final say honestly. We have a policy that, if it is a sticky situation we all discuss it. As far as this thread goes. Atri is at this time the lead web dev. I only assist now and test when needed. So if he wants to hold off on deving it due to a heated debate or w/e he has that option.

    I think between Atri and my comment we pretty much established what the deal is on the account limits and that it is not hardwired permanently to the box limit.
    What has mildly disturbed me was essentially how this thread evolved into a "how to" guide to beat current measures, after we addressed these concerns.
     
  25. iance

    iance New Member

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    767
    fair point, although the only reason it was brought up in the first place is because there is already people out there educated on how to do that. They have been pulling that stuff for years on P99.
     
  26. furst

    furst Member

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    375
  27. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

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    2,469
    OK, locking this thread. It is turning into a flame war and things are being quoted out of context.
    Policy is debated among devs/admins.
    The implementation is up to who is working on it.
    Furst that was highly uncalled for and appreciate that you edited out the imagined lack of unity among the devs/admins.

    This has been discussed. NO extra accounts will be considered until the need is there based off game progression.
    Luclin is the only time a start of consideration for additional accounts should be made.
    If you run into muling issues prior to that, you are doing it wrong:
    3 accounts have 24 toons with 16 slots and 10 slot bags = 3840 unique items or stacks.
    Not to mention wearables.

    This is a mutual decision and not open to any more debate.
     
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