Login Server Account Limit

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tolixs, Dec 8, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. tolixs

    tolixs New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Every individual should only have on forum account, makes sense. The only issue I am seeing with that currently is each forum account is limited to 3 loginserver accounts. 3 boxing is the max, but like most people in EQ, I plan on having more than 3 characters at one point, and it would be nice to make a new class on another account. For example, lets say I have a paladin/necro/mage, but decided to make a shadowknight. If I am limited to 3 accounts, then I would probably put the SK on the pally account. But down the road lets say for some INSANE reason I wanted to trio a sk/pal/necro (I'd kill myself first though).

    So just thinking out loud and inquiring if the 3 accounts was just a temporary thing or not. Wanted to get that out there before I got halfway through my first trio and decided to replace one of the toons with a diff class!
     
  2. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,469
    Highly likely the 3 account limit will be permanent. But the account transfer section in the forum is just for this reason you post this.
    As long as people don't abuse it and constantly ask to move and move more toons, a GM will move it when they can.

    I have another idea to deal with this issue. But for now its an idea that I don't want to air yet. Just keep it in mind that I have this in thought :)
     
  3. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    I agree with the 1 forum account limit. I think it will prevent troll accounts and RMT.

    The 3 box limit sucks but since it won the poll I accept it and will happily abide by this rule.

    I really think they should bump up the maximum login account limit for each forum account to like 6.

    Keep the boxing limit at 3 but let people make more accounts. That way you can have 2 different trios as well as the buffers to pl. Just make it so only 3 accounts can be logged in per IP.
     
  4. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

    Messages:
    991
    I think it would be nice to have some more accounts, or allowed to be create another forum account for more game accounts. I understand you may be limiting this to try and counter boxing, or RMT, or general abuse. Is there really harm in people being allowed more game accounts? Or even unlimited? As long as they go through forum registration first, I would think it would catch most of the troublemakers? It is really nice as a player of many chars to have them on different accounts, and as the game moves out of classic, sometimes it is really useful to have a guild porter, or something on a separate account. I think people will eventually work around this limit, legal or not, which will create more problems. Having a GM be able to transfer chars around is an ok measure for now, but that can add a lot of admin work for something pretty minimal. I really hope we can have this changed in some way.
     
  5. tolixs

    tolixs New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Could you go into more detail regarding this "account transfer section". This seems like the perfect tool for RMT if I understand it right. Also if you are only allowed one forum account (which I agree with), then moving a toon OFF your forum account wouldn't help you out, since it isn't like you want to get rid of a toon, you just want a new toon on a seperate account. Maybe I am reading too much into it though :)
     
  6. atri

    atri New Member

    Messages:
    94
    We have agreed to work on making a toon move tool.

    [blink]ON HOLD UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE

    General outline.

    This month we will create a toon mover, and make it available to GMs. It will work to move toons between your login accounts (one forum account).

    It will not yet allow players to use it, until it passes testing. (we do not want to introduce a way to dupe toons/plat/gear).

    After we are convinced it is stable and safe, we will introduce it as a player usable tool so that you can manage the login account for any toon on your three accounts.

    Please feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns (I'll be writing the tool).[/blink]
     
  7. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    I think he was refering to xfering a character between your OWN login accounts not off to a different forum account.

    The 1 forum account limit is great for preventing RMT but I see people exploting this and using a VPN or public wifi to create another forum account and bypassing this since they are limited to 3 login server accounts.

    Keep the 1 forum account requirement but up the number of login accounts you can have but only let 3 of them be logged in at once per ip address. Not 3 logged in total since this would prohibit a friend from logging in on your account to buff/rez/port you.
     
  8. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

    Messages:
    991
    I would be happy with 6 game accounts per login. It is really nice to have chars on separate accounts at times, and I don't feel that long term, 3 is enough game accounts.
     
  9. tolixs

    tolixs New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Thanks for the info, I am glad to hear this setup instead of between forum accounts! Is there any specific reason only 3 is limited on the account? I'm just guessing, but I would think the 3 toon limit on the server is not enforced via the cap on loginserver accounts, but another way, so I am confused why the limit is 3 in the first place. Perhaps there is a reason I am unaware of, or maybe that was just thrown out there awhile back and there isn't a specific reason not to change it?
     
  10. furst

    furst Member

    Messages:
    375
    I was just having this conversation, I always kept my bazaar accounts on a totally different account. Basically always had 1 bank account maybe with a high level druid on it for pling but mostly for holding items
     
  11. atri

    atri New Member

    Messages:
    94
    We are not changing the game (login server) account limits at any time (in my opinion) or possibly ever. The community vote on a 3 box limit and that is reflected in the number of accounts you can have.

    We have tons of work to do on real features and bike shedding the limit will not help anyone.

    What about Me and my wife (room-mate, mistress, cousin, dog) playing from home? Oh shit we can't because of the IP limit. What about X, Y, Z.

    A person is limited to a forum account, a forum account is limited to three login server accounts.
     
  12. atri

    atri New Member

    Messages:
    94
    The limit is based on the vote of 3 boxing being the limit for the server (a community choice). Had the community voted 6, it would be 6.

    It might change again some day, based on vote, or demand, or whatever. I'd hesitate to guess honestly. I just do not want to see this degrade into an argument over the account limit or how it is enforced.
     
  13. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    Not arguing with you but I would like to point out that the community voted on a 3 box limit not a 3 account limit.
     
  14. tolixs

    tolixs New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Yea, no reason to argue, just discussion. The vote was based on how many toons a person could play at one time on the server, so I just don't see how that lines up with how many accounts a person can make. The 2 are not directly related. You could have 100 loginserver accounts but still be limited to 3 characters online, or some people will have 3 loginserver accounts but only play one toon at a time. Also if the issue is someone will use a VPN to login more toons than the 3 limit, they could just as easily use the VPN to create another forum account. I don't want to create a heated discussion or anything, I just started playing and wanted to make sure we get as much stuff out of the way as we can before live hits :)
     
  15. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

    Messages:
    991
    The community voted for 3 boxes, or 3 chars online at one time. Not on the amount of chars created. There are legitimate uses for having more then 3 game accounts. For instance, maybe a guild wants to have a public access druid, or CoTH mage camped somewhere. What do they do? If any single one of them creates a new forum account that is apparently against the rules? That said, I am not going to argue too much on this one if the admins are against the change for security/time reasons. People got along on live with 1 account for a very long time, I guess we are lucky to have 3. I suspect the topic to come up again in the future though.
     
  16. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,469
    Yes the vote was for 3 boxes. As we currently have it setup that means it directly relates to login accounts.
    The number of accounts may or may not change as we discuss this and develop measures of anti-cheat.
     
  17. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    ohh okay, I wasn't aware the 3 login account limit was how you were regulating the 3 box limit.
     
  18. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

    Messages:
    991
    When a friend takes a break am I not allowed to have their chars or use one of them? Is a guild member not allowed to log into my account? Both of these common things would seem to violate the forum account limit, being in possession of more then 1 forum account. None of this time the # of chars online would ever be more then 3 of course, I am concerned about players getting banned/suspended for pretty common situations due to strict account/forum rules.
     
  19. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    I was also under the impression that friends were allowed to share accounts. Like lets say you need a port you could log in your buddies druid or his cleric for a rez as long as you never go over the 3 account limit. Another situation is lets say you have to log out early for a raid and a class specific non-drop piece of gear drops and your buddy logs in your toon to loot it so it doesn't rot.
     
  20. atri

    atri New Member

    Messages:
    94
    The limit is based on the vote of 3 boxing being the limit for the server (a community choice). Had the community voted 6, it would be 6.

    It might change again some day, based on vote, or demand, or whatever. I'd hesitate to guess honestly. I just do not want to see this degrade into an argument over the account limit or how it is enforced.
     
  21. atri

    atri New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Being in possession of a login server account does not indicate possession of a forum account. A login server account allows you log in to the server and create 8 toons. You have three login server accounts per forum account.

    This means there are 24 toons available to each forum account through the use of the three login accounts.

    If your friend wants to share an account with you I see no reason at this time for a GM to intervene. If a problem arises from this sharing it is between the two of you. I assure you we have sufficient logging in place to determine who is using what accounts.
     
  22. Sketchy

    Sketchy People Like Me

    Messages:
    991
    Edit - question answered and clarified, thank you Atri.
     
  23. stairs

    stairs New Member

    Messages:
    137
    So why don't we modify the login server to only allow x connections from one ip address that x amount can be configured in the database per account. And let people have unlimited accounts tied to their forum accounts that way you can enforce the rule of 3 programmatically and people arn't bitching about not being able to create mule accounts. The downside is you will have to make exceptions for multi player households.

    My personal opinion is the account limit is stupid and the boxing limitation is ok. But the current setup is just short sighted.
     
  24. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,469
    I have mentioned it in posts before. But now it is added to the F.A.Q.
    viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9&p=10#p10

    stairs, yes we would have to do some backend work to make sure this can be dynamically set and still block multiples correctly.
    The way it is now I viewed as temporary.
     
  25. atri

    atri New Member

    Messages:
    94
    I actually think an IP limit is short sighted as well. It just raises a different set of problems. While this may be temporary, it may also be longer.

    I like to first ask "What is the problem we are trying to solve?"

    If the problem is "I need to make more than 24 accounts because mules." It is possible that we can come to an agreeable solution to this

    1. Allow a "guild to be a player" with a forum account and it can have login server accounts.
    2. Allow guild leaders and officers to have 3 additional "mule" accounts.
    3. etc.

    There are many ways to solve a problem, once we have a clearly defined problem.

    It might change again some day, based on vote, or demand, or whatever. I'd hesitate to guess honestly. I just do not want to see this degrade into an argument over the account limit or how it is enforced.
     
  26. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,469
    This
     
  27. tolixs

    tolixs New Member

    Messages:
    27
    I tried to explain the issue in the opening post, but probably didn't do a good job. The concern is that while you can have 3 login accounts, some people will have more than 3 highlvl toons which they might mix and match in different combinations. You can't mix and match 2 toons when they are on the same account. I don't know if this transfer tool is intended for daily usage if I am constantly mix/matching or what, so maybe it would solve the purpose, just seems like a lot of maintenance moving toons back and forth just so you can play the trio you want to.
     
  28. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    No one is asking for "24 accounts," I take it you mean't characters though.

    An IP limit would work fine, it works for p99 even with exemptions for multi-player households.

    Making it so guild leaders or officers can create multi accounts wouldn't work because then everyone would just make their own guild and their friends officers. This also falls under special priviledges for special people which is a slippery slope.

    You asked: "What is the problem we are trying to solve?"
    The problem has been clearly defined
    People want more than 3 accounts for mules/porters/rezers/buffs/pixel lust while still sticking to the 3 boxing limit.
     
  29. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    I don't think people here are arguing just discussing it and trying to clarify the situation. There are some legitmate questions just like the boxing a friends character one that you just answered.

    I think the demand is there and this is what the thread is for to show how many people would support more login accounts and get community input.
     
  30. Quaos

    Quaos New Member

    Messages:
    153
    I don't think it's out of the question for the devs and GMs to assume that we can use some wisdom when creating our trios - choose wisely and work within the confines imo
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.