List of things specific to Al'Kabor

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Darchon, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    Since my posts in the Pet Pullingg thread are no longer about pet pulling I figured Id make a new thread:

    Bugs:

    Pit War
    Shakerpaging
    Pet Pulling
    Out of Range EXP

    85/15 not working
    *Perma pacify
    *Instant cast buffs if AAs and foci brought haste over 100% (enchanters with quick buff, deftness and enhancement haste)
    Mental Corruption giving SKs full mana each proc

    Reclaim Energy giving back more mana than the pet cost to cast due to pet Focii/pet HP AAs and improved reclaim energy
    Ranger bow damage draws 1 point of aggro instead of a correct amount
    Monk AA rank 1 of special attack AA (Wu's Mastery or something) gave 100% chance to trigger another Attack. Making ranks 2/3 irrelevant
    Item/Vendor Recharging
    WotW/Rune Order stacking
    When using old models you could use a horse, having standing meditate but not be effected by its movement speed bonus/visual presence of the horse.
    *Bard's Bellow AA had unlimited range
    Bards didn't use reagents on items that are Clicky effects (think PoK Gate necks mainly)
    252 skill cap on everything. Meaning having 240 in any tradeskill plus a 5% mod was effective skillcap. Or 220 Smithing/Tailoring and the 15% raid mod also put you at the skillcap.
    Casting a spell with cure counters that were insufficient in number to remove the debuff, would make it invisible however it's effects continue to work until the true number of counters were removed at which point a "you have cured your target" message is given.

    Content:

    PoEA All rings were broken and all traps only spawned once per server-up
    PoEB CotH added later in PoP
    PoWater CoTH added later in PoP
    PoAir zone out didn't exist on Al'Kabor
    Xegony adds were inert on Al'Kabor
    Binding was allowed in all EP zones and Time on Al'Kabor

    Cleric AA - Celestial Regen/renewal was 72min recharge, 24s duration and single target (instead of 15min, 48s duration and group)
    Cleric AA - Purify Soul 72min recharge reduced to 30min
    Cleric AA - Divine Res 36hour recharge reduced to 18hour
    Beastlord AA - Paragon of Spirits added/made MGBable
    Aid Grimel - Undoable without GM assistance. Fletching combine didn't work on Al'Kabor
    Power of the Elements (PoP quest) - didn't function on Al'Kabor. The "Essence of Earth" from Avatar of Earth isn't in our item DB - He always dropped a Cloth Cap instead.
    ___Fun note to above, if you look at item IDs, the Essence of Fire, Air and Water, as well as the final combine Power of the Elements are all next to each other in the item DB. However right next to them is the Essence of Mud. This item is listed on Allakhazam as dropping off Monsterous Mudwalker, boss from PoEA Mud ring. It is *possible* the alpha version of PoP/that quest, intended for you to use that in the combine. It never dropped for Temerity when those rings did work though, so who knows! But as the quest is described on Allakhazam and functions on live, doesn't work because Essence of Earth has an item Id of like 65000 which is beyond what the AK database handles_____
    Tradeskills... Mistletoe Cutting Sickle had a 355 trivial until late PoP, which it had on Al'Kabor. Later this was reduce to a much more reasonable 250
    Elemental Planes Smithing... All combines were way harder on Al'Kabor. Sheets required 2 ores and yielded 1 sheet. Also you needed chain jointing which required you use one scale/ring. The updated versions required 1 ore and yielded 2 sheets, and the chain jointings were replaced with an extra superb leather padding. Effectively they took double the components that EQTraders listed them as taking.
    Ornate Abalone Bow from Krziik in PoWater didn't exist on Al'Kabor's drop tables
    No items should have Shielding, Avoidance, Spell Shielding etc. On Al'Kabor
    Many PoTime items lacked their foci, mana or hp regen. Many also were much lower HP/Mana than listed... PoTime probably deserves its own section.
    P4/5 Gods dropped 2 items each not 3.
    Walls didn't block any AEs in PoTime
    P1/2/3 would activate before you beat the previous. P2 activates once you ENTER all 5 trials. So if you beat 3, and zone into 4/5, it activates once you zone into 5.
    P3 bosses (rock men) dropped a single loot not two each.

    UI changes:

    No mana value displayed (client?)
    No DoT damage ticks displayed
    Raid window limited to 60 (limit of 10 group leaders meaning groups 11/12 can't be formed)
    Raid window limited capabilities of raid leader - cannot manually move players groups like the updated version from late PoP could.
    No Guild window available.
    No /auto inventory command
    No /Autofire command for Trueshot rangers

    Just a list of things as they were on Al'Kabor that differ from what many people remember of PoP.

    I've included a few things that were patched in during like LoY or LDoN that were improvements to things implemented in PoP.

    Now personally, I'm of the camp that it should all be instated as it was unless it terribly broke the game. Something like Shakerpaging that allowed you to get 100s of AAs a day or pit warring which allowed the same, I can understand removing. But other than that, I'd tend to say keep it all.

    Sure classes like SKs were ridiculous with infinite mana, or enchanters were ridiculous with Command of Druzzil. But that was just part of being on Al'Kabor.

    *Hobart fixed this in his final patch.

    Discuss. Agree/disagree, why. If you disagree, do you do so selectively (IE you think 85/15 should be fixed and pet pulling nerf) or absolutely (every bug fixed and updated to a more functional/accessible state of PoP) or somewhere inbetween.

    I'm curious on the general consensus here. Feel free to mention things I had forgotten that were bugged or unique to Al'Kabor's Planes of Power or server code.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
    numinari and Oiwon like this.
  2. Ransom

    Ransom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    255
    I'm of the mindset to fix it all. It certainly seemed like it was Hobart's intentions to continue fixing and updating bugs that had been previously fixed on other servers.

    I think bypassing the 37k+ item number limit is huge. Fixing raid events and quests so GM's don't need to help is also important.

    It seems extremely subjective to say the shakerpaging bug needs to be fixed (Warrior related bug), but Mental Corruption (SK) and instant buffs (casters) should be left alone. Out of combat experience probably resulted in some serious power leveling as well.

    Fix it all. Make this server as stable as possible. The bugs and quirks of AK weren't the only thing that made it unique. It was also the community. I've never seen such a neglected community be so positive, knowing they were locked in time.
     
  3. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,968
    Shakerpaging could crash zones and disrupt play for anyone in the vicinity while also having the obviously-unintended result of multiple AA's per pull. It's not exactly equivalent to SK's getting mana or enchanters buffing quickly, but I guess that's neither here nor there.
     
  4. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419

    Sk's having unlimited mana was not intended by SoE and an obvious exploit.


    I also remember if you cast an instant clickie after you cast a spell it refreshes your spell gems instantly-also a unintended bug/exploit.
     
  5. furst

    furst Member

    Messages:
    375
    What about the voice line for SK's, you cast it on someone and generate basically 0 aggro
     
  6. surron

    surron People Like Me

    Messages:
    552
    Sweet post

    i'd like to add

    -The spawn point in grimling forrest where 78 grimlings stacks on top (good for farming acrylia ore)
    -Ring 6 allowing Warden Bruke to flee caused his guards to infinitely spawn (good for farming ToV faction)
    -Ring of Fire in AC 1.0
    -Evolved Burrower in AC being killed in 2nd to last stage caused for longer respawn
    -Item slot HELD (Hollow Acrylia Obelisk)
    -Green cons would skill up defense
    -Thorns would skill up offense
    -Glykus in PoTactics would spawn Enchanted War Boars which dropped loot
    -PoM archer mechanics
    -Elif Whitewind in BoT would always spawn
    -BoT walls did not block LoS
     
  7. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,968
    Sure, but it was also intentionally left in by a SOE developer
     
  8. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    Voice went through some stages that was the first one.

    After Hobart patched there was one where it worked until... Someone either FDed or got on the aggro list. I think it was something like the SK got all the aggro generated by the person he buffed or something?

    Surrons list is solid as well. Infinity spawn was used by basically everyone to farm Acrylia. I wasn't aware of the Burke infinity but that's neat. AC itself was in 1.0 mode, Yep. BoT we did have Elif as 100% spawn and casting through walls was just a byproduct of being an outdoor zone where LoS wasn't necessary.

    Good list as well though.
     
  9. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    Hobart had very limited time to fix 'bugs' on eqmac.

    He also left in shakerpaging, IVA, 650pt ds, etc...before the server shutdown...

    You see how that works? Catch22

    Fix 1, fix them all.
     
  10. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,968
    You should stop repeating yourself. Everything isn't black and white.
     
  11. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
     
  12. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,968
    I don't play any of the classes you're complaining about. On that note, you don't get to determine what's an exploit or not. Only the devs can do that.
     
  13. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,455
    The majority of the bugs that were fixed by Hobart were not bugs that required coding. If you dig deeper, they were actually on the design side or database changes. Changes that required actual coding changes essentially never made it in, simply because he didn't have the time to implement and properly QA them. Coding changes that can affect an entire game require a lot more scrutiny since they can break encounters or game design easier.

    Changing a few database entries are much easier to QA (remember, there was no QA staff, just him) and roll back quickly if necessary. I would imagine that Hobart wanted to fix everything that did not match up with PC side EQ at the time. It was just impossible due to time and staff constraints. Remember, his real job was being a dev for Vanguard. This was something done in his left over time.

    The point to all of this is to say, if there is a bug we should fix it, not spend massive amounts of time trying to recreate bugs that may never actually be exactly how they were on AK anyway. It would just be a best ditch effort.

    The exception to all of this is to implement PoTime for a couple of years as close as possible to how it was on AK. ;)
     
  14. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    I would be pretty rustled if PoTime were made to be similar to the PC version rather than the AK version though.

    Cause not being able to wall the mana drain on CT, Bertox, Terris, or the damage from All of them. Sucked. Also not having AA Celestial Regen sucked, to counteract DoT DMG we needed to burn MGB EE which cost between 1500-2000 mana for that one cleric... Not to mention not having MGB Paragon for the majority of the time. And those Quarm AEs... Best be left in their unresistable state.
     
  15. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,455
    I think if there was a bug or exploit that made something harder on AK, leave it in, otherwise fix it. Unwinnable PoTime - love it.
     
  16. sourdiesel

    sourdiesel Active Member

    Messages:
    419
    Broken record much?

    Can't help but laugh coming from the dude trying to tell me what is an exploit and what isn't.

    The purpose (I think) of this thread was to discuss them, of course GMs have the final say in what to/not implement.

    Sorry for crapping up your thread Darchon.
     
  17. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,742
    It's kind of hard for me to tune mobs for AK's versions when AK players refuse to give me their logs (even with chat text removed) and the guild I was in was cockblocked from the elemental planes by members of the guilds that were flagged. Like 98% of my log data is from my personal logs, despite my pleading. I do however have a ton of time logs from PC EQ 2003.

    I am aware many planar AoEs were made easier mid-PoP. The harder versions will be used in most cases.

    As for line of sight in PoP zones, I am also aware that it was disabled in many zones and was later enabled on Live. I'm not dictator of the server but I will advocate to keep LOS disabled in zones like BoT (which I have video proof had no LOS). I doubt this will be an issue.

    I would bet that most PoP zones were designed to have thick walls so Sony could turn LOS off, really.
     
  18. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    I logged everything except other melee damage for over a year while I played.

    So I have a lot, just limited melee output of mobs.

    That being said once PoP is closer on the horizon I will strip chat from my logs and get them to you. But logs dont tell the majority of the story in PoTime. It was stuff like walls not blocking AEs and drop tables and various mechanics. Things you will have to take my and other Temerity player's words on.
     
  19. Trosh

    Trosh New Member

    Messages:
    44
    Mage, Druid and Necro DS would all skill up offense on live, also (as far as I know, it still does)
     
  20. Trosh

    Trosh New Member

    Messages:
    44
    It seems to me that making as many changes as possible to make the game run smoothly with the least amount of GM intervention is ideal. I never played much on AK, but like a post earlier said, it's usually more about community than it is the specifics of bugs/exploits/whatev. Most things could be fixed/improved, then do them, I say!
     
  21. Verdent

    Verdent People Like Me

    Messages:
    341
    Hobart also fixed double back stab near the end. I don't believe he fixed double back stab for pets. He did something with dots near the end if I remember, made the focus effects actually work I believe. Also, did dot damage stack on AK?
     
  22. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    He fixed DoT damage Focii. Originally they only worked if the DoT had a direct damage component (like many of the poison/disease ones).

    Once fixed, it properly worked on every tick.
     
  23. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,968
    Better sooner rather than later! :lol:
     
  24. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    I've got quite enough time before PoP is even being considered :p.

    I'll get you all the PoTime, Fire, Water, EarthB and Air logs I have. Never did PoEA on account of being broken and half of the Air rings we never did while I was there.

    Oh and I forgot! Xegony should drop Elemental Silk Pants Pattern every time instead of a random pattern. A blessing and a curse. But man that was awesome to have some extremely bugged PoAir rings and then finally be rewarded with an easy Xegony fight.
     
  25. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,742
    PoP melee damage is actually the easiest for me to gather because I have tons of 2003 logs and PoP had no full zone revamps. If AK versions hit differently then I will of course need logs from others.

    What I REALLY need is logs of things like Acrylia Caverns (particularly ring of fire), Vulak ring, Innoruuk, city guard damage, spawned epic quest NPCs. (fuck if I'm doing every epic quest on Live) Even a few melee hits from an NPC is useful because they can only hit for 20 possible values. I also need things like emotes and spell casts. Logs aren't just for melee hits-- I can estimate NPC resist values with spell casts, so logs from an offensive caster's perspective are also valuable. I can even estimate things like NPC respawn times with slain messages, check see invis status and faction from cons, etc. I pull a lot from logs. I'm also interested in damages of mundane, non-raid boss NPCs. Hell I need logs of buffless level 1s to tune low level mitigation.

    The sticky thread on this forum has a post with a chat text remover that works quite well, but requires installing lua. I may make some sort of web version for convenience to try and encourage log submissions but I'm just so busy fixing important things with the emu right now.

    I wouldn't bet on the bugged loot tables being recreated.
     
    Cadsuane likes this.
  26. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    Bugged loot table was basically limited to PoAir and PoTime. Because we had the alpha versions of those zones. I don't see much reason to not do this though. It's just a different set of loot versus where it drops on Live. Xegony's silk pants were bugged. But that's part of being the alpha zone. Before the PoFire update Fennin Ro would drop chain pants 100% of the time and he had a chance to drop Greatstaff of Power (which typically drops from RZ in Time).

    PoWater/Fire got updated in 2012 I think it was. Temerity changed the entry in their DKP system then to differentiate between pre-patch and post-patch loot tables. And there were quite a few changes. Namely going from 1-drop minis to 2-drop. And Leather patterns stopped being extremely common. But the DKP records are a great indicator of what dropped where.

    PS - Loot tables from Allakhazam are really bad. Particularly the patterns/molds. They list way more than the NPCs actually dropped. As far as raid mobs go, every mob that dropped a pattern could drop 1 slot of each type. I'll make a full list somewhere when that's relevant. As far as ornate goes every ornate pattern had a single mob that dropped it. There were several in tactics which could drop all 4 armor types for that slot (like the boots from Glykus boars) etc. I have a spreadsheet of this when it becomes relevant.
     
  27. Trosh

    Trosh New Member

    Messages:
    44
    I've seen loads of times when people use like.. google time machine or something, to look at actual posts or websites as they were in [year]. Couldn't you use something like that to look back at Al'Kabor guild websites, wikis, and forums to research some of what was happening at that time? I know that you can do that with allakhazam, and look at a certain mob's page as it was listed in say, 2002 for example, and it won't have any of the random new tradeskill stuff or defiant or any of that.

    Just thought I'd plop that out there, not sure how all that works, but figured I'd share my idea.
     
  28. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    You could, yes.

    But the problem is people will say that Valbrand drops the Leather Helm pattern, when it was infact Thangbrand. Valbrand dropped the plate Bracer mold.

    If you go to the allakhAzam entry for Thangbrand, it lists him as dropping both those patterns and leather boots.
    Valbrand is also listed as dropping both those patterns.

    And it's not just wolves with similar names. Many named mobs in BoT have multiple ornate patterns in their drop table, when they really only dropped a single one.

    Posts back then are just as incorrect as today. Waybackmachines won't really help. Magelo drop tables are more accurate for Ornate. The EP patterns got mixed up a few times but we had a pretty good idea on the drops from all EP raid mobs as far as patterns go.
     
  29. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,742
    A copy of or access to guild DKP histories would be helpful. And I don't just mean PoP.
     
  30. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    I don't have the access or authority to get you the login info or a download of Temerity's atleast.

    At some point in Temerity's history it went through an overhaul (probably 2005-2006) removing most all of the Velious/Kunark loots. Vintage is probably your best bet on that stuff.

    Luclin/PoP is very well documented and I can go mob-by-mob and get you info on those when the time comes.