Limit on Boxes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Merriam, Jun 7, 2014.

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  1. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    2 or 3.

    Either works. I will miss my 3 or 4 box combination I used on Al'Kabor, but I can get by and enjoy the game with less.

    I'd imagine most everyone can.
     
  2. Zamiel

    Zamiel Member

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    57
    A limit of 12 boxes seems reasonable to me.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. layonhands

    layonhands Member

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    Look forward into slaying pixels with you frien.
     
  4. Placer

    Placer Member

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    524
    I'd remind you guys that the hope of many on here is not for a re-creation of what AK was in 2013 as they were shutting us down. By then we were well into a un-policed, massively boxed, generally un-fun experience that led a lot of good people to go elsewhere. The PC hack, free-to-play, lack of SOE attention created a perfect storm.

    2012 and earlier was our nice little Al'Kibbutz era that was so attractive to many. Yes, boxing was often a necessity then in order to fill voids. But voids meant carrying 1-2 extra toons with your main because you needed that tank or cleric in order to have an event. If you wanted to box, you had to pay for it and that was a natural firewall against the grief types and why so many of support controls now even if we don't know the right place to draw a line.

    I don't know how legal charging is, since the whole EMU approach is so grey to begin with. But there is a simple formula we could tweak if we wanted to make sure we had the support and players had flexibility.

    Accounts = 1 + $X^(n-1). Where N is the desired number of additional account and $X is the donation.

    So say you wanted $10 to be the donation for a second account. Then you flip a switch so anyone who gives 10 or more can have 2 accounts total. $100 would get you 3. $1000 would get you 4. So you could go higher than 3, but I doubt anyone would.

    Naturally, that could be played with. Basically a tier pricing/donation. If we want 2 by default:

    Accounts = 2 + $X^(n-2); with the X larger to balance it maybe for that 3rd box and on.
     
  5. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved Staff Member

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    Glad to see that the overwhelming majority atm would be happy with 3 or less accounts.
     
  6. Esildor

    Esildor Member

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    100
    Might be sort of a nightmare to track it, but, totally possible. Make additional accounts over the agreed upon 'free' limit require some donation. You could scale it up for each additional account as well and put a cap on it(if the agreed upon limit is 3, set cap at 6 via buying 3 more?)

    This not only allows those who want to have more than the limit(say 3) a possibility, but, it also helps support the server(hardware, data center fees, etc).

    Edit:

    Additionally, this might not be a bad topic to leave until a later date. Giving the server more time to attract the people who will play on it, and subsequently be subjected to the limitations, might be a good idea.
     
  7. wharhogg

    wharhogg Member

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    When money comes into play it leads to corruption.....look at what it did to P99.
     
  8. Esildor

    Esildor Member

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    Server will need donations. Devising a way to make them more attractive will probably be necessary.

    Assuming the server takes off, datacenter hosting fees + hardware upgrades to support the population, etc.
     
  9. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Buying accounts just incentivizes RMTing.

    Paid accounts were the solution to most of 2013 Al'Kabor's woes. I don't believe they are a good idea on this server.

    Just keep a 2-3 box limit and be done with it. When people are clearly playing more than that, ban all accounts.
     
  10. lurari

    lurari People Like Me

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    594
    P99 is allegedly swimming with more money than they could possibly spend. There are no incentives at all to donate there.

    I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of point system. It's popular on other Emus, with all sorts of varying degrees and finding the right balance can be difficult. I wouldn't support buying power (e.g., gear) that a lot of the WoW emus do, but buying a +box limit or illusion clickies (like on PEQ) may be a nice medium.

    Laundering donation dollars into points (which can be gained via other means) into in-game rewards might be too far for some, but I like the brainstorming.

    QFT. I'm also very encouraged by seeing 40 votes already - great to see so much interest, following this closely, this early!
     
  11. wharhogg

    wharhogg Member

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    348
    I want to see 0 money shit influencing ANYTHING game related. If the server has active gm's and players it will get donations, especially from a community like EQMAC had.
     
  12. Speedz

    Speedz Administrator Staff Member

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    The legal mess of any for profit donations can be bad. I am very against "buying power" in every game I play. Let alone here.
    SOE may have issues with us essentially "charging" for game mechanics based off their copyrighted design.

    I encourage the brainstorming, but I will shy away from anything that will cause any potential legal black, red or grey area.
    For the moment additional boxes beyond any agreed pubilc opinion poll limit is based upon actual participation in making the server true to its design and intention as well as perpetual involvement.
    One thing PeQ does to reward bug reports and such is gear rewards via a points system. I like this approach.

    As far as accounts, it would have to be huge to open up more accounts. This is not something that should be rewarded easily.

    EDIT: The reward for donation is having a server on a fast stable host. NONE of the donations go to any profits and never will. So essentially donation based reward system will never work here.
     
  13. Sunnyvale

    Sunnyvale New Member

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    6
    I don't really see a big difference in allowing 3 boxes vs 6. Someone who plays 3 will most likely pick classes that synergize well enough where they won't be forced into grouping if they don't want to, and playing 6 won't open up crazy solo farming opportunities like ssra.

    I would like to see a limit a 6 if there is a limit, but I honestly don't think there needs to be one as long as server staff is active in enforcing no hack/script rules.
     
  14. hollie

    hollie New Member

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    2
    I'd be happy with 6. I don't think there should be one or two people boxing a 30+ character raid as was the case on EQ Mac towards the end. I think that having a max of 6 would still allow a solitary player to run his/her own group, but they wouldn't be able to lock down most bosses on their own with this cap.
     
  15. Manstache

    Manstache Member

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    150
    to echo speedz, requiring donations for extra accounts is a tremendously bad idea; both for server integrity and legal issues

    voted 3, melee+healer+utility. powerful as heck, lots of combos possible. wizards will be scarce though!
     
  16. Esildor

    Esildor Member

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    100
    This is the thing I like least about a box limit under 6.

    As someone who plays fairly eratic/odd hours I may choose to play classes I otherwise wouldn't simply for better 3 box synergy vs what I want to play.

    3 box limit we'll see tons of:

    Enchanter
    Cleric
    Druid
    Bard
    Shaman
    Monk
     
  17. Kazlan

    Kazlan New Member

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    90
    If it is going to be a 3 box limit ill likely box 3. My two have always vejen SK and shaman and ill ADD a warrior to that just because it's the online 3 choices for trolls and ogres.

    Actually limiting people to choose one race for their (hopefully) two or three boxes could be fun.
     
  18. Throy

    Throy Member

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    131
    I love this comment... are people voting 3 because they fear what people with 6 will be capable of? Is it going to be that uncommon that two 3-boxers get together to accomplish the same goal as a single 6 boxer? Does everyone recognize the amount of work and patience to maintain a 6 box? Something to keep in mind... if it ends up being a 3 limit, then you're forcing the people that want to box more to either play 3 (or not at all). With a limit of 6, you're not forcing the people that want to play 3 to play 6 and it is always available to them if they choose to do so.
     
  19. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    2,959
    People can pair up with a 3-boxer and do what a 6-boxer could yes, but it forces you to pair up. Make friends or work with previously made friends.

    The problem with 6 boxing is the monopolizing of camps much easier with 6 than 3. And if 4 6-boxers pair up that's 24 and they can do most of Luclin raids etc. If they pair up with a 3-boxing limit that's only 12, there is much less you can monopolize with 12.

    Requiring double the likeminded people as you to be able to box something is best. If it goes for 2-box limit that would require triple what a 6-box limit would allow. Seeing Dozekar or Ssra or AoW or KT etc. Farmed by one or two people for long periods of time was pretty lame. I'd like to see those things taking actual raids of people where 15+ humans are showing up to kill them, maybe with a boxed cleric CHers and shaman buffer or something tossed in. I realize it's not feasible for some of the low hanging fruit like Dozekar which will be doable by 2 three-boxers. But it would be nice for the majority of that content to stay content that requires cooperation and real human interaction.

    I'd tend to favor something like a 2-Box to start, then later on in the server allow 3 and stop there.
     
  20. Zamiel

    Zamiel Member

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    57
    People can pair up with a 6-boxer and do what a 12-boxer could yes, but it forces you to pair up. Make friends or work with previously made friends.

    The problem with 12 boxing is the monopolizing of small raid mobs much easier with 12 than 6. And if 4 12-boxers pair up that's 48 and they can do most of PoP raids etc. If they pair up with a 6-boxing limit that's only 24, there is much less you can monopolize with 24.

    Requiring double the likeminded people as you to be able to box something is best. If it goes for 4-box limit that would require triple what a 12-box limit would allow. Seeing Vex Thal or Agnaar farmed by one or two people for long periods of time was pretty lame. I'd like to see those things taking actual raids of people where 30+ humans are showing up to kill them, maybe with a boxed cleric CHers and shaman buffer or something tossed in. I realize it's not feasible for some of the low hanging fruit. But it would be nice for the majority of that content to stay content that requires cooperation and real human interaction.

    I'd tend to favor something like a 4-Box to start, then later on in the server allow 6 and stop there.
     
  21. Esildor

    Esildor Member

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    100
    Deja vu or something

    Limiting accounts isn't Al'Kabor ;)
     
  22. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    2,959
    Was pre-FTP. Which I think is the goal here.
     
  23. Yinn Yang

    Yinn Yang People Like Me

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    543
    Have to agree with Darch here, before AK was made free, mega-boxing was just not that big of a thing. A few people had a few additional accounts, but AK was not a bot army server, by any stretch. In the small amount of time (about a year) before it's demise, it went free to all, the PC hack was introduced, and all of the sudden bot armies ruled. Just because the last year of AK was that way right before it was closed down, does not mean that was the spirit of AK... far from it.

    There are some that speculate the massive bot armies were the beginning of the end for our server, I personally think it was a combination of many things... but that certainly didn't help.
     
  24. Faults

    Faults I Feel Loved

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    1,803
    Everyone who wants account limits of some kind - remember that forcing people to play YOUR way rarely has a good result. In the case of "if you want to box go to PEQ:TGC" the same can be said of p99. Obviously we aren't in those places because we want to be here in some fashion. And to reiterate a point I made far far earlier in this thread. I don't know how many people we will end up with but - if the poll is any indication of server population we had 45 votes. If all those people played at the same time, were willing to work together and did so well they could probably raid once they were geared.


    As great as a box limit might be, you should wait to see what your average population is over a 24 hour period of time. Just because you may play EST nighttime when most people are on doesn't mean the rest of us do.
     
  25. Luddwig

    Luddwig Active Member

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    99
    Glad to be a part of the fun here - I've enjoyed the server a lot thus far. I personally voted for a 2 account limit. I think it forces a lot of creativity and will keep the competition for highly contested targets (i.e., Dozekar) healthier and more collaborative than if 3-6+ accounts were allowed. I wouldn't really mind a limit of 3 either, but I think 2 still provides the ability to exp/quest independently if one desires while making it less trivial to form a full group and dominate competitive targets.

    I understand that a two-box composed of less independent classes (i.e., rogue) might not be popular, but I'd argue that every class has a great duo partner and if it's what you want to play, you'll play it. You're also not entirely bound to play the same combo all the time, as some may make alt combos for farming items (i.e., enc/clr) or for teaming up with others.
     
  26. Esildor

    Esildor Member

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    100
    No it was not. It was limited in the sense that no normal person is going to pay 30 accounts, yes.

    Although, 6?

    Six accounts is only $90 a month. Very cheap for the amount of entertainment EQ provides me, two trips to the bar is $90.
     
  27. abacab

    abacab New Member

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    153
    I'd agree somewhere between 3-6 would be a good number, as I know some people DO like to play 6's for MGB teams (Ssapieora?); on SZ Sam played upwards of 25+ accounts so people can and will do more but it's so terribly inefficient and actually causes harm in the long run when MQ bot armies just permacamp NPC's (see: EQTitan) but I would be fine with just a two-box limit; and hell if people wanted to box 10+ toons they can just run a VPN or some VMware on a second laptop or something and get their fix that way.
     
  28. Minsc

    Minsc New Member

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    17

    Weee bar logic!

    The example of dozekar is stupid IMO. Why hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that he will be permacamped no matter what the group set up is. If it's all single people one top end guild will sit at his spawn and poopsock the spawn for their guild in fear of missing the spawn and not getting it back if they arnt online. All of this omg I'll never see a monster alive is a stupid point. Every raid target that takes a low force will be cleared almost on spawn for probably a year or more.

    Let's be serious with eachother and recognize that the first year or so will be a huge competitive race to server firsts.

    Also where is this huge population going to appear from to support a less than 3 box limit? I really don't care to box a massive amount of chars like I did on al'kabor again. The only reason I did that was because of the flame fest on the server that I was accused to be involved in and the low population forced the situation for me to raid. Personally I wouldn't mind 6 toons so I can avoid stupid when I play and enjoy the game. When I plan on raiding I'll approach it like a live server and apply on one toon to a guild or create one at the server start and recruit.
     
  29. abacab

    abacab New Member

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    153
    I'd say start with 2-3 and as the server progresses open up more? Perhaps add an additional box limit on players that have reached level 60 or something, so there is actually some time-invested adn people aren't botting like an army of mages.
     
  30. abacab

    abacab New Member

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    153

    Did someone say rotation?

    [​IMG]
     
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