Pentium 3, 500 MHz. 16 MB RAM Edit: For the record I don't like hardware being used as an argument against the pursuit of having max fun in EQ
I can't agree that the FG zonewide pull is easy. It has taken me lots and lots of practice to pull everything in one pull, and I still fail and die from time and time.
Likewise, it should not come as a surprise that some content may be approached differently from the dev team to counteract that and make sure the game experience feels similar. The yin and yang of akuracy vs. what's best for the server.
I disagree - folks did PBAE in Seb, Hole, FG, etc on live in-era. Heck even running a charm pet in PoTactics was 2 AA per hour, easy, as long as you had a solid group. I also don't know of any more than about 6 people that can do the FG zone-pull, and they usually die and CR about 1/3 of the time anyways (on a good day). Don't get me started on the deep. If people think it's so easy, feel free to try pulling it yourself and see!
somewhere else in a galaxy far far away, i was playing in the deep. and enchanters could become dubious. so i had it down to a science. so even with the zone lowered to the lowest zem. we still got 4 aas per hour so all of the deep was cleared in two pulls. i assume the issue with the deep is the amount of casters. and you getting flee stunned
People commenting on how easy it is make me laugh. A few people did grind some serious AAs, that involved them taking time off work and playing in 16 hours spurts to get there. AOE is the best format to grind any sort of XP in any era, and was back then in live. That is a fact. The fact YOU didn't do it doesn't change the truth. Best groups back then were AOE. Right now we're not even close to the AA rate in PoP. I could pump out 5 AAs an hour in PoWater and PoFire easily, and that didn't involve having 5 enchanters support and a bunch of buff box. The deep right now is at best 1 AA and a half an hour MAY BE, cause we wipe so godamn much. It takes 2 DIs per tank, 1 before the pull and usually 1 as soon as the tanks arrive in camp with a sliver of life left, 1 rune, and an army of enchanters stunning because you get about 15 to 20 resist s per enchanter per pull. If you think the logistics of pulling that off is easy, you are welcome to try to make the group and pull it yourself. I have a lot of patience for grinding and trying new things, but The deep pulling almost made me throw my keyboard across the screen a few times. Let's not even talk about flee stuns, or the leash range which was already insanely small, and just got lowered because ...reasons.
Yes, flee stuns, and shrieker curse, and shrieker stun, and entombment of ice, root and casters nuking you, and chase range being hilariously small. So we blow a bunch of reagents trying to keep pullers alive. But then your DI doesn't pop anyways, so you get to spend 20 min CRing out of a horrible corner of the zone since you can't summon corpse (until today - TY devs for real, no more heart attacks on the pull). And if none of that kills you, then your enchanters get a dozen resists on every stun, and then you just wipe anyways cause 1 mob got loose and bashed somebody. Some of the most fun but also the most frustration I've had playing this game.
i dont see the issue. with people getting done with AAs.. i can see if it ment people stopped playing and there would be an empty server, but i feel like the community on this server is so diffrent from other emus. that i wouldnt be afraid if people maxed aas. in a few weeks
The reason full zone pulls weren't possible in 2002 FG (or even 2012 AK without a lot of effort) was because of pathing. TAKP is much better in that regard.
why does that matter about pathing. imo the worst is the easiest to pull.. where is good pathing will catch you eventually
Shitty pathing would actually help me glitch stuff to avoid being flee stunned every 2 seconds. I pulled sebilis wing by wing back in era and it was fine. I pulled all of velks back in era and it was fine. I pulled all of KC back in era on live and it was fine. Full zone pulls have never not been a thing.
I'm talking specifically about FG, which is why I said FG. This is caller script thread. I never said KC zone pulls were impossible.
FG was aoe'ed on live. Asian guild on my server did it a lot. Also the reason why this devolved in a more aoe centric discussion is both zones got nerfed again today with the chase range change while a statement was made that it was 'easy' to pull.
i heard rumors about that the deep and FG were made for the intent of Pbaoe.. Bragon have you and jizmak managed to pull mobs from beyond the invis bridge?
No way. We barely make it alive pulling a quarter of the pre bridge zone, with 2 pullers. Can't invis past packs and let them social, too much casting on you, and too many random see invis. Can't run too far, shit leashes immediately. Then it's a contest of flee stuns and roots and nukes even with resists in the 200 + since some stuff has big adjust (looking at you shrieker's curse!) Then you make it to camp with DI poped and 1 bub of life left, pop another DI and it fails, you die. half your pull leashes back. Usually a good portion of your pull has leashed anyway. In the off chance your pull makes it there, your enchanters (all 4 or 5 of them, don't even try with 3 there's no way) get 15 to 20 + resist a cast, it 's a matter a time till the overlap sets one of the mobs free to bash an enc. Then it's GG. i went from full level 60 to 60 ish percent left in the level just pulling shenanigans like that. That's a lot of godamn dying for something so trivial and easy. Everything is immune to denon's which i'm pretty sure was never a thing on AK, but i have no way to prove it so he, we'll suck that one up on top of the rest. So easy.
I have a Youtube channel full of AoE videos, so I understand how this works. Pathing and the ignore mechanic limited pull sizes and made it dangerous. I pulled three times per nuke in my Karnors and Sebilis video because of ignore range causing me to lose mobs. I pulled a dozen mobs, brought them to enchanters, locked them down, didn't nuke, pulled again, etc. Ignore range was measured carefully. It was 400 on AK and now it's 350 here. I actually had it slightly larger before the patch in FG because I didn't want rangers shooting stuff from out of range and killing non-moving NPCs. AA exp was higher in PoFire and PoWater because they have massive ZEMs and the experience code granted a massive bonus to killing NPCs above your level at level 60+ and you had PoP gear and exp per AA is static. This is Luclin, not PoP. You guys complaining about 30 minute AAs being too slow (which is faster than what I was getting on AK doing the caller script) is a little amusing when this server is granting you 2.6 times the experience than what players in 2002 were getting and possibly more. Some of you will be done with AAs before this month is out.
Literally no one in this thread has said the Deep pull was easy. There are people at ~100 aa right now, and they could have had more. But that said, do you really want to reward the early birds, and then nerf just when everyone else could get a chance to do it?
No one is complaining about the AA rate. I'm complaining that people think and post that doing this is EASY. It's not. 16 hours a day of pulling with all the shenanigans i listed above far from easy. To fiora: many people have said AOE is easy, the deep or otherwise. My bad as it all blurs together by now. Ask link if he thinks pulling FG is easy right now. There are 4 people that i know off that can do that pull and have spent hours learning it. They still die quite a bit doing it. That's not the definition of easy. But sitting in camp and aoeing every 30 minutes is easy yes, like every nuker spot in every aoe group ever.
also i found that pulling, the trains for Pbaoe group. to be one of the most entertaining things you can do in everquest. needed to know every cornor of the zone, use mouse to look around strafe-run cornor etc etc.. makes me feel like i am playing an fps
That blurring is affecting you again - I didn't say FG pull was easy either, it was Torven who said that. It's true that there's only a handful of people who HAVE done the full zone pull. However, I have seen nothing to indicate there is something preventing everyone else from doing it, other than opportunity. But that aside, I have seen people making TWO pulls and getting basically all the mobs, and they can do this before respawn, which means the super impressive single pull isn't actually necessary.
No one is rewarding early birds. Things always need to be tuned and no one did this crap when Luclin was on the dev server.
That is true. And I believe no one here thinks pbae should be itself nerfed. Sounds like Torven would be perfectly happy to leave the ae exping just as it is, just not quite as rewarding. That's their judgement call. Most of this thread is just people trying their darndest to protect the golden goose, with little regard to whether or not it SHOULD be like that.
I saw people pulling nearly triple digit mobs without even a healer in FG using a non-tank puller. The Deep is harder, but FG is supposed to be significantly easier anyway. Due to the nature of this project, errors and omissions will much more often make content easier instead of harder. We're not going to leave stuff broken because people had it easier for one patch. I don't like the unfairness of it either, but that's the way it is. Deving this project is non-stop triage. I can spend days of my life pulling zones with carefully built characters on my local server and fine tune one aspect of the game, but that means other stuff doesn't get done. What would you guys rather have? Faster AAs for a patch, or broken raid content? Or we could release Luclin in 2020 and hope Daybreak and our users are still around. One can always criticize my choices on what to prioritize of course, but people who don't help out with development of this project even when doing so requires almost no technical ability should probably keep that criticism to themselves. ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
Making two pull you cut down significantly on your xp rate. The pulls are not really faster to make, just safer. I was doing the 2 pull method at some point and it wasn't really a good xp return. I have no idea who you watched doing this with no healers. We always have minimum 3 stunners or 4, and 1 to 2 clerics on top of druids / shammies we get along the way. Healers do get to heal cause the stunners will get hit and the puller will sometimes explode on incoming. If you get up early, go to ssra, get a shissar revenant and a tank / healer pal, a bard if you wanna be safe, and just 6 box the mines with your buddy for 15 hours like the people doing aoe are doing, at the end of 2 weeks doing this (yes, this is what we're talking about) you will pretty much be done with AAs as well. On top of that, your boxes will also be, while if you did this AOEing you had to share that sweet sweet xp with 5 or 6 people. This is what PoP will be about, Charming and massive AA return. Will we nerf enchanters then? I sure hope not. Bards can Dot kite right now in maiden or umbral (probly better in maiden) for an exp return very close or superior to AOE and with literally no logistic behind it. No groups to make, no minimum class number requirment. A bard who spent 15 hours a day for 2 weeks kiting in maiden would probably also be done with AAs. At the end of the day, some people want to spend unrealistic amount of times online to cap their AAs as fast as possible and move on to doing something else. Some people enjoy the slow grind. Some will enjoy a very casual pace and will get there in months instead of weeks. This is the story of MMOs, every single MMO to date. Who are the people speeding through it hurting? Who are the people taking their time hurting? There is room for both playstyle and i don't understand why there is such aversion for people who want to power through things. We played nearly 2 years on velious with zero advancement to our characters outside of quests and raid gear, we came into luclin thirstier than luclin horses and for some of us it meants taking weeks off to power through AAs. For a tank there is no better feeling than finishing your defensive and not getting splatted by the end game mobs. Healers AAs are so good than rushing them feels amazing.
The only change I put in that was not intended to simulate AK was the nerf to the caller script allowing more than one caller per cave. Everything else was intended to mimic AK. Bard kiting is certainly something we need to take a close look at. None of the devs (as far as I know) have done this on AK, so it's a harder thing to judge; but our pathing makes this easier as well, no doubt. I do know that Sony added a special ability to HoH mobs after PoP's launch (a self-dispel if you pulled more than 10 mobs) because bards were getting stupid amounts of AAs there after they fixed the pathing in the zone (which was TERRIBLE on AK), so it was possible under certain circumstances.
I dunno i don't think bard kitting needs touched. it's still very high risk, very tedious, but very high reward. There are may be what, 5 or 6 people with the patience and skill to do it here. Seems balanced to me.
On the topic of bard kiting, I tried it in ME earlier as a way to get EXP and clear the shard PHers. After a few hours of partial success and complete failures I ended up just singling out the PHers and killing them individually. I found that with Selos (Drums) on I couldn't reliably tap my left or right turn key to circle the pack while staying in range of the pack for AEs to land. I did find that I could gather a pack, use 2.5min selos and then activate DA, faceroll into my pack and then hold down left or right arrow, allowing me to auto-circle around the pack. This worked... up to a point. I was able to kill some of the lower HP mobs and nearly all of the pack 1-2 times and another 2-3 times I was able to get the pack halfway or more down, but for whatever reason the pack would deviate very slightly from its normal chasing pattern in my autocircle, and it would 1 round me or fleestun and kill me. At the end I decided it wasn't worth the time spent to do it. It just randomly collapsed on itself for an unknown reason too frequently to justify the 10+ min gathering process and the 10+ min DoTing process after each wipe.
You play here for free. So what if it takes an extra week to get your fking AAs lol quit yer bitchin'. Complaining shouldn't exist here. The server runs like a top. Better than ever. Devs and mods who actually care about fairness is really hard to find on any emulated private servers....
