Flee Stun - something aint right here!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JerimShadowreaver, Jul 23, 2022.

  1. JerimShadowreaver

    JerimShadowreaver Active Member

    Messages:
    95
    A few people have already posted that flee stun is broken here and is set way too high. Also, I have been told that you cannot be perma-stunned here, false. Take a look at yet another log of someone being stunned nonstop for 6 secs. This took place over the course of 3 flee stuns happening back to back to back without a pause in-between. The instant one stun wore off, another hit every time. When these things have been posted in the past the responses have been denial of an issue. This happens everywhere regardless of level difference between player and mob as well. For example, in Uguk, I have been chain stunned (almost to death) by mobs that are roughly 40 levels lower than the player, that doesnt even make logical sense imo that a mob that far below you can so consistently hit you hard enough to stun you. Can we take a look at this and perhaps do some corrections or show how we know that its correct if that is what we believe?
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] You are stunned! The log below seems like a some pretty strong evidence of concern. This was the result of just 2 giants that were being pulled, 1 hit me (stun of course) and that was it.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] You are stunned!
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind geistlig was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind geistlig was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind geistlig bashes YOU for 105 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 371 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind geistlig begins to cast a spell.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 182 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:24 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 441 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind geistlig begins to cast a spell.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis bashes YOU for 112 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 583 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:25 2022] A vind militis bashes YOU for 112 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] You resist the Tornado spell!
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind geistlig was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind geistlig was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind geistlig hits YOU for 115 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] You are unstunned.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] You are stunned!
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind geistlig was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind geistlig was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind geistlig hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 371 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:26 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 512 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 323 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 512 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:27 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 371 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig hits YOU for 115 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig hits YOU for 239 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind geistlig hits YOU for 508 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:28 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 323 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 158 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] You are unstunned.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] You are stunned!
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind geistlig was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind geistlig was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind geistlig kicks YOU for 106 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:29 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 205 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] A vind militis was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] A vind militis was chilled to the bone.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] A vind militis hits YOU for 300 points of damage.
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] You have been slain by A vind militis!
    [Sat Jul 23 17:02:30 2022] You have lost experience.
     
  2. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Well first of all, in that log you were bash stunned then flee stunned then kick stunned. So there is only one flee stun there.

    Secondly stuns cannot land on players while the player is already stunned. This is client enforced. The stuns wore off before you got restunned again.

    I literally posted video of Live servers, where flee stuns still happen, with green mobs stunning me over and over. The evidence is conclusive. AK logs back it up. I'm sorry other emu servers aren't as accurate and so people have a wrong impression of what EQ actually was. It's not changing. In fact it's slightly more forgiving here than it should be. I was skeptical myself when Mackal told me about it (he discovered it) and I spent a lot of time checking it out. They're easy to find in logs because they are 3 seconds instead of 2.
     
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  3. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    I've seen the videos of you running through ME and I agree that they are quite conclusive. Even still, I can't reconcile why my memory from AK flees is so different.

    Given that the nature of your experiment was to be encumbered and run slowly, I'd be curious if any of the following ideas were considered:

    Flee stun % scales based on agi
    Flee stun % scales based on encumbrance
    Flee stun % scales based on move speed
    Flee stun duration scales based on agi
    Flee stun duration scales based on encumbrance
    Flee stun duration scales based on move speed
     
  4. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    I doubt duration would scale.

    I could buy that the percent chance scales based upon AGI. The others seem less likely to be a factor in this calculation.
     
  5. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

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    My concern is not so much about flee stuns, but I've always questioned why bash and kick stuns land so much from NPC's. Like clockwork, it seems if a mob can bash you, it is almost guaranteed to on incoming when it connects with you. Maybe part of the problem is with Kick and Bash stun landing percentage. You can easily see this on low level mobs like in lguk on a lvl 65 character. Pull a bunch of mobs and they take turns stunning you from bashes, add in flee stuns and you get stun locked.
     
  6. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    Apparently I didn't put them up but I also did flee stun tests on level 20something mobs in Marus Seru. The rate didn't change.

    As for bash/kick stuns:

    Code:
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    upload_2022-7-24_13-21-3.png
     
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  7. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

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    Somethin' ain't right... everywhere else.
     
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  8. Denzal

    Denzal Active Member

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    Bragon brought this up a few years back, after looking into it with staff and his own research it was found to be accurate. The real issue on this server is Torven hating warriors and nerfing shakerpage and removing DBOTWL from RZ's loot table. Let's focus on the real issues shall we?
     
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  9. Cadsuane

    Cadsuane People Like Me

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    It's OK because they used the guildID# to seed the random() so the drop rate on Vanazir is 75% for us
     
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  10. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

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    Terris Thule is the goddess of disappointment.

    On this topic Vanazir loot rights are available for time flagged individuals 250k/each. Feeding all the gnomes we raid with isn’t cheap.
     
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  11. Walex

    Walex I Feel Loved

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    How much for a serpent of vindication? Asking for a friend
     
  12. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

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    250k seems low
     
  13. Auyster

    Auyster People Like Me

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    250k seems way too high considering you just delete it.
     
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  14. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    When you did the test in Marus seru did you use the same technique of encumbering your character?

    If so, I don't think it would address the agi/encumbrance/move speed factors.


    The point about bash and kick stuns is intriguing. Perhaps we have the right calculation for stun chance, but bashes/kicks are landing more often than they should given level differentials/AC/avoidance and mitigation AAs?
     
  15. Cadsuane

    Cadsuane People Like Me

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    Nah, no deleting happening. But some RANGERS have em now :confused:
     
  16. Mokli

    Mokli I Feel Loved

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    I also thought about this and if perhaps because the netcode is so superior here that NPC's are connecting more with us than they did on live back in this era or on AK simply due to missed network packets. Do we have stun logs from AK?
     
  17. solar

    solar Administrator Staff Member

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    1,194
    I think the pathing is just 'better' than on live eq so NPCs do a better job of pursuing players. Haynar made some changes that made this a lot more forgiving a while back and I like how it feels now, but it's not as forgiving as on the TLP servers.
     
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  18. Cadsuane

    Cadsuane People Like Me

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    but of course, what is :D
     
  19. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

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    It's about the value to the buyer not the seller.
     
  20. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    what makes you think I encumbered my character?
     
  21. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    In the ME flee stun video I thought you slowed your character down by encumbering them so you could get a higher sample rate of hits/stuns. I watched it years ago though, so maybe I'm misremembering. Did you do something different to slow them down?
     
  22. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

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    If I wanted to run slower, I'd simply walk instead of run. But from looking at it I'm not encumbered or walking.
     
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  23. Saenayil

    Saenayil People Like Me

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    Found the old video. I probably just made the assumption you were encumbered because you had a bunch of unstacked bricks in your inventory, but from what you wrote you SoWed the mobs to get them to pursue you closely. My bad.

    I suppose it really chalks up to NPCs having more swing opportunities due to the better pathing here, or my memory is just faulty. Either way, thanks all for rolling out the dead horse, I'm glad to see it's well-preserved.