ELI5: changes to charming, resists, and cha?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Korya, Aug 18, 2021.

  1. Korya

    Korya Member

    Messages:
    9
    Are the recent changes to charming mechanics, etc., very significant?

    From the 8-18-2021 changelog:

    * The resist algorithm's roll is now using a > instead of a >=. This will make targets 0.5% more resisty.
    * Charm, root and blind spell tick saves now apply a +4 level modifier for the caster's level.
    * The charm and mez charisma modifier is now accurate and only applies to enchanters.
    * The preliminary rolls for charm, root, blind and fear spells are now accurate.
    * The default magic resist floor for charm was set to the accurate value.
    * The amount hate generated from charm spells has been reduced.
    * Animals now hate charmers as much as non-animals do on breaks.
    * Lull critical fail chance is now precise.
    * Charm and lull spells no longer have large resist penalties on yellow and red cons.

    Some of these are a little ambiguous about the impact, so I'm just curious if anyone knows what the overall effect will be, especially for enc play. Is cha a vital stat for enchanters now, as on p99?

    I'm not able to play at the moment to check it out for myself, but wishing I could, so I post instead. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
    Toomuch, sowislifesowislove and Break like this.
  2. Pithy

    Pithy I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,620
    CHA is mostly irrelevant to charming. It affects the chance of your initial charm being resisted (which should basically never happen anyway on a tashed pet), but it doesn't affect the chance to break each tick at all.

    CHA does make your mem blurs more likely to succeed and your pac resists less likely to cause aggro, though.
     
  3. showstring

    showstring I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,332
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
    Korya and Break like this.
  4. Break

    Break People Like Me

    Messages:
    610
    Thanks for the share. I somehow missed this. It is a great read, but it's about as far from ELI5 as I've ever seen.
     
  5. Korya

    Korya Member

    Messages:
    9
    Good to know! Thanks for the replies, and for that thread. Great info there.
     
  6. Torven

    Torven I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    2,742
    CHA did not affect charm durations prior to the patch and it still does not.
    Pets with 0 MR have the exact same break chance as before.
    Depending on the pets's level relative to the charmer, in some circumstances charm will hold less often and in other circumstances charm will hold better than before. (because of the +4 level mod)

    I based the previous charm break logic on a data sample I had personally made on AK in which I knew I was very diligent in keeping debuffs on the pet, and that sample just happened to be extremely average so I had a good guess already. If however your pet's effective MR is anywhere from 6-11, you'll get more breaks. ('effective MR' meaning the MR after level advantage debuffs etc is factored in)
     
    Ripwind likes this.
  7. Korya

    Korya Member

    Messages:
    9
    Ah, that makes sense. A tweak rather than a fundamental change. I just wanted to make sure. Thanks for the explanation!
     
  8. Haynar

    Haynar Administrator

    Messages:
    3,637
    I have been asked to add this to p99. That will be a big change for them.
     
    Baler likes this.
  9. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    No more CHA affecting charm on P99? Oh my many enchanter gear sets over there going out the window.
     
  10. Auyster

    Auyster People Like Me

    Messages:
    752
    For the level modifier, is that +4 to the caster or the target?
     
  11. Walex

    Walex I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    663
    The caster
     
  12. Glacier2kx

    Glacier2kx New Member

    Messages:
    6
    I'm not sure how true this is for P99. I have feeling the CHA mechanic is indeed real on P99. I leveled enchanters on blue and green, both as mains, not a pocket enchanters. Both toons were mostly solo'd, duo'd or trio'd with cleric and a 2nd enchanter.

    In one instance in velks, I was grouped with an equal level enchanter. My Cha was 238, his a 255. We both had the same mob type of the same level. My charm break ratio was roughly 4:1 vs. his. I maxed cha shortly after that experience and didn't seem to have as many breaks. I'm just not sure and without someone breaking down the actual code and looking for certain, I'd be hard pressed to believe CHA isn't a modifier, at least on P99.

    I've since rolled on Takp and am stacking CHA as usual, though, I keep being told TAKP and P99 have different charm mechanics. I'm not sure either way yet as I lack experience with the server.

    As for charm being resisted on initial cast....that almost never happens. Thus far, charm seems more stable on TAKP than it was on P99 with low cha - that much is certain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
  13. Tuluvien

    Tuluvien I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    1,085
    P99 currently has inflated CHA involvement and effect when compared to in-era Live. What's being implemented here is as close to accurate as I've seen, due to the sleuthing done by Torven.

    It's proposed that the above changes to charisma and charming would be implemented in p99, which would be a fundamental change.
     
  14. Trollio55

    Trollio55 Member

    Messages:
    54
    Since the resist check for pacify is different on p99, the need for high charisma is still very necessary there to reduce the chance of crit resists regardless of charm mechanics.
     
  15. Haynar

    Haynar Administrator

    Messages:
    3,637
    I really got to update charm and pacify mechanics on p99. Maybe will do that next week on kids spring break.
     
  16. Glacier2kx

    Glacier2kx New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Don't. P99 Charm mechanics make sense as they are. CHA should be a thing in charming. not sure why it isn't on TAKP or why people think its a good idea. basically negates CHA being a primary/necessary stat for enchanters.

    Think about this:

    Everyone wants to complain that enchanters are too powerful. I agree, a well played enchanter can do things that are amazing; however, there is a good amount of risk and reward involved - this is how Brad intended it. He always spoke about risk/reward in EQ.

    If CHA isn't a necessary stat for charming, then enchanters can stack more HP and more INT gear. CHA being a necessity helps to balance the class out.

    I have a 60 enchanter on blue, a 60 enchanter on Green and am about to be 60 on TAKP on my enchanter main.

    On Blue and Green, the two things that usually killed me were pet breaks and lack of HPs to withstand a bad pet break or running out of mana.

    Not having to stack CHA makes it so you can now stack more HP gear and more INT gear thus making the class imbalanced even further for those that can play enchanter well.

    Of course, bad enchanters gonna be bad and some make it look way easier than it is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  17. Darchon

    Darchon I Feel Loved

    Messages:
    3,627
    CHA is a primary stat for enchanters with Pacify resist rates and initial charm resists.

    Really the most valuable gear options on TAKP are focus related. Affliction Haste being the primary thing that increases power of chanter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  18. Glacier2kx

    Glacier2kx New Member

    Messages:
    6
    mana pres is another big one for sure.