Surely there is some wiggle room here, though. The initial creation of this server seemed to be based around AKkuracy and fixing the truly broken. Half of a class being non-functional in most situations is pretty broken. While searching for more information on AK bugs in general, I came across this thread: https://www.takproject.net/forums/index.php?threads/how-bout-the-old-spell-bugs.337/ I just want to understand why the stated goals of the server, to keep Akkuracy while fixing glaring bugs, doesn't apply to this. No one is harmed by archery being fixed. We will never change the balance of the server just by being allowed to exist. The bug on AK was also still not nearly as rough, as we all have clear memories of dealing archery damage on plenty of encounters not shown in those logs. It's just such a fun sucker not being able to use half our class. I just continue to plead for mercy. *edit* Bah, I accidentally necroposted the thread I was quoting by not noticing I was actually typing my entire reply in it. Sorry about that!
Akuracy surely can't be the only consideration here, considering other akurate bugs that have been fixed. I'm curious as to what goes into deciding what ak bugs are allowed to live, while others get squashed. I know this server isn't a democracy, but I think a community poll concerning this issue would be a good idea. Again, thanks for the time you guys have put into this issue already.
It seems to me bugs that are bad for the server (perma paci, shakerpage, Tolon) get squashed. Ones that have no net negative overall impact are made as AKurate as possible. Where any given issue falls on the spectrum is subjective. Where archery falls is also subjective. I rerolled my ranger, but at least part of that was because we have no Blessed Guardian arrows here - my own fault, not being a native alKaborian, for not double checking that to make sure it wasnt a LDoN item (narrator: it was, though none of the components are). I didnt like being a second class or even third class citizen on our raids. That said, if archery is indeed changed, it better either be properly akurate, or if it performs better than that (inAKurately) it better be generating proper aggro, because top sustained dps with minimal aggro wouldnt be good either.
From Speedz' "FAQ 101" post . Is this server going to be just like AK? Short answer, Yes and No. Long answer, While it will be Time locked and support only the clients that were last seen on AK initially, we will fix a number of issues that existed on AK. We plan to have less bugs overall
And I believe this bug does have net negative effect. It's emulating a geomotery issue that effects every character in game, not just rangers. It's true that we lose the most from it, but we are creating an instance where a game mechanic (ranged attack) does not work as intended for the sake of maintaining a bug instead of fixing one. Also can anyone tell me if this effects bolt spells?
Ahh, ultimately it's just a showing of how much we care about the great server all the staff has built up. If we didn't love being here or being a ranger, it would be easy to just silently walk away from this issue. I consider the ability to have such heated discussions to be a good thing!
Dumb question but are arrow hits reported in the vicinity of the mob or in the vicinity of the toon that fired the arrow? Also isn't this last quote indicative of arrows landing on a "regularly" (as opposed to "reverse") cornered Saryrn?
They are reported at the mob. My life and our dearly departed parses would be so much better if it was reported at the player, but the only hits you get there are your own.
As things are now, pinning mobs on a single wall allows hits. How many mobs in the game absolutely must be corner tanked at a right angle?
Very few if any require you corner tank them. But that’s the natural way push goes. I’ve never been in a guild that controls push perfectly and always wall-pins every mob or circle pins every mob. Anyone claiming they have is lying. Even the best and most coordinated guilds fail at this, there is RNG in push, mobs move around and DPS is lost due to OOR messages. It’s simply just easier cornering everything when a corner exists. It’s the only type of DPS that dies completely based on the positioning.
Most people that have chimed into this thread have shared anecdotes that support my claim that at *least* sometimes (and I would argue more than sometimes), cornered mobs were arrow-able. At this point, there's no way to "prove" it, since AK is long gone - and god I wish would have kept my logs. Is there nothing more we can do? Was my LMM log not adequate evidence?
AK was unique. There were "bugs" and some of those were fixed later on eqlive. There were also certain "features" of AK that were unique. Many of which also changed on eqlive. Giving rangers unbridled dps, under all situations is significant. Because although changed on live, other classes also had changes. So to selectively pick one feature of one class and update it does many things. It changes that class, without respect to the other changes that other classes experienced in the same timeline. And it also removes the uniqueness that was AK.
Here's some more stuff; this time from my 2003 guild: [Sat Jun 28 20:41:56 2003] Veruca tells the guild, 'how about we keep the archery down til he engages the MT first? ;P' [Sat Jun 28 20:41:56 2003] Arch Mage Yozanni tries to hit YOU, but misses! [Sat Jun 28 20:42:26 2003] Andriana tells the guild, 'HOw about you just corner him and not worry about archery at all' (Ranger) [Fri Jul 18 19:50:56 2003] You have been slain by Tallon Zek! [Fri Jul 18 19:54:29 2003] Andaas tells the guild, 'so have to figure out a better way, wall/corner not working that well' [Fri Jul 18 19:55:10 2003] Kaedaase tells the guild, 'plus corner is pretty much nadda on any form of archery' (Ranger)
look at that hot aragorn avatar. maybe i should reroll to a ranger and then i can have a cool avatar...
We cannot provide proof of the differences between here, but look at all of us. We all are clearly not experiencing what we did on AK during raids. We just hate where we are right now, and the thought of staying as is just makes us wonder why we should stay as rangers. At this point, surely Akkuracy means more than raw mechanics. We all still are quite confident that corners allowed for functional archery far more than 0% of the time, but it is true that guilds would try not to corner others in the ways that rendered archery impossible. That part of AK is lost, though. The low population server with paid subscriptions; it's gone. No guild has a reason to hinder themselves by letting us deal our meager range damage, when just boxing a wizard will get them through that. We can't bring that aspect of the server back, where everyone was struggling to progress with the few resources they had. Here, if you lack a cleric, you just log in more clerics. There is no issue. I would just like to make the argument that allowing us to use archery is the more Akkurate approach, both mechanically and spiritually. Please, let us experience AK again as we remembered it. A place were we got to often shoot arrows freely and just generally enjoy ourselves, rather than just being in this state where the reasons for us to exist are so pitifully few.
I actually have a video of the MM raid Malignant did and that I attended. Although the video in this thread also shows this: MM is standing on top of that pedestal, which is doubling the height of his centerpoint to the ground, of one of the largest NPCs in the game. That's a rather unique circumstance and probably explains why arrows hit him, but only from near-melee range. (Deathbot was clearly close to him in his log, with a melee hit and a bow shot 2 seconds apart)
Thanks for the response on this. I can't remember if he was up on a pedestal or not, you may be right. But yes, if you could shoot up or down towards a mob instead of horizontal, it would allow you to hit mobs in corners, so this would make sense for LMM. It seemed like larger model sizes it was easier to find sweet spots.
Honestly? Yes. If that is what it takes to allow us to use archery on cornered mobs, I am 100% behind getting rid of any type of potentially automated archery. I understand that one of the reasons behind not wanting this is a belief there will be ranger boxes just sitting on multiple laptops, offering easy and free dps. I am for any change that would alleviate those fears, whether it is adding on higher aggro to arrows or getting rid of archery macroing or both. Completely, 100%. I know it might be strange to hear me say that since I was the one who initially argued for arrow macroing, but if having to focus on my main is the price to pay for being useful, I'll take it. Gladly. As someone who prefers not boxing on raids, I will gladly accept a change fixes this issue and rewards being focused on a single character.
I dun get that response. I am just stating how happy I would be to have reason to look at my ranger during a raid fight, rather than turning on autoattack and focusing my cleric. Maybe trying to pull aggro if things start to go bad. I mean, I still used kick occasionally, but we aren't exactly monks =P. I personally much prefer not boxing very much on raids. I would love swapping any risk of automated ranger bots for the ability to focus on my ranger during fights.
I remember that one GM event on AK........ where there was a long line in poK near nexus stone, and the GMs gave players 1 pre-time item of their choice. That was legit.
It wasn’t just pre-time items. PoTime weapons were also handed out. I hope we never do that here. It devalues the time and effort it takes for guilds to kill the mobs that drop those items.
