I am working on getting the raid window operating. And there are some things I need more information concerning, to get it working correctly. I need from logs, the messages that happened on AK, when starting up a raid. Starting with, inviting a person to a raid, and the subsequent messages when the raid forms. I need logs from a person invited to a raid, and the subsequent messages, showing people joining, etc. Other questions I have concerning functionality of raids: If you go LD or log out, are you automatically kicked out/removed from the raid? What happens to the raid leader, if they go LD? Is it assigned to another person in their group? Does it assign to another group leader? Those are the basics I am looking for to begin with. Thanks. H
All I remember from Raids reguardling LD's: If a member of the raid goes LD: they are kicked from the group and (supposedly the raid) this was broken though and would kick you from group but you would end up in a Raid of your own. If the Raid Leader goes LD: They were kicked from the group but stayed in the Raid (the user was greyed out as "not in zone"). They eventually fixed the member so it would just grey the person out as if they weren't in the zone.
OMG, Haynar, you rock. The raid window would change the whole way raids are done, thanks so much for working on it. I didn't raid in my 1 year on AK; so I cant help you there, sorry.
Still needing more help. Logs seeing the sequence of messages when a raid is formed, is vital information. If you go LD or Camp(), should you leave the raid/group? H
No logs, but I do think I remember what happens when a player goes linkdead (although I'm disagreeing with Zarwayne, so corroboration would be good). Linkdeath When a player goes LD, they should immediately drop from both the raid and the group. Ditto for camping. Raid Leadership When the raidleader leaves the raid without first passing leadership (including by going LD or camping), leadership automatically passes to another toon. Which toon is a bit unpredictable: I *suspect* it's whoever the server thinks joined the raid first, but this is often ambiguous from the player's perspective, as up to twelve people can seem to join the raid simultaneously (i.e. if the raid is formed when one person in a full group /raidinvites another person in a full group). The raidleader doesn't have to be a group leader.
I think if I remember right from PC (tho it is far after when AK was based) If a raid lead LD or /q it passed to next in line regardless of raid status. if a next in line resided in a group addition (many added at once) to the raid it went to the lead of that group. I think any disconnect got removed from raid right away. I know there were instances where you would end up dropped to the raid que at the bottom (no group but in raid) I just forget the circumstances. I also agree I remember raid leader and main looter did not have to be group leaders.
Also a main looter and raid leader can have that status while in non-grouped state, I def remember that.
here's the patchnote for that era when it first release in October 2002: http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12675
9? wow I didn't realize it was that many. I have a question that wasn't asked I don't think. How many do we want to allow for max raid members? AK max, PC max or? I think PC was higher than AK.
You can check in game by pressing alt-r to bring up the raid window to see what the maximum the client would allow. 12 groups. so looks like 72.
Based on the info in the eqmac client decompile, it looks like the intel mac client only supports 60 in a raid. Not 72 like the PC client.
yea AK raid was max 60 side note didnt /makeleader not work properly on AK either? it wouldn't update the group leader in the raid window sometimes
It was a max size of 60 and really didn't have much functionality either. You could set looters and that was about it and you could only look at the window and target players there for single/group buffs.
Yea, its not too fancy, thats for sure. Was hoping to have it ready for next patch, but unless things fall into place real quick, it won't be ready for another 2 weeks. Logging in so many chars to test, then make changes, reboot. Log back in 3 or 4 chars, again ... over and over. Its a bit tedious and time consuming.
Yes, a maximum of 60 in a raid on AK. This was bumped to 72 a couple of weeks into PoP, but AK was pretty much PoP out-of-the-box. /makeleader and /makeraidleader worked fine. (Did /makeraidleader require the new leader to be in the same zone as the old leader? I think it might have.) It's true that you could target a player by clicking on their name in the raidwindow, but unlike the group window (which works from anywhere in a zone), this kind of targeting had the same range limitation as the /target command. People dropped to the bottom of the raid window when they left their groups, or when their groups disbanded. Dropping your group didn't drop you from the raid, although dropping from the raid did drop you from your group. Group leaders stayed group leaders even if ungrouped at the bottom of the raid window, and couldn't be invited to other groups. Also, /raidinvite invites an ungrouped person to join the raid as a group leader; once there are 10 group leaders, even if they don't have any people in their groups and are all sitting at the bottom of the raid window, the raid leader can't /raidinvite anyone else; players have to be added through group invites. If someone is already in a group, when they accept a /raidinvite, their whole group joins with them. Anyone in the group can be invited and accept on behalf of the group, not just the group leader. Accepting a raid invite doesn't change who the group leader is. The raid leader cannot invite someone who has any group members outside of the zone; doing so will produce a "players out of range" message (I forget the exact wording, who gets it, and whether failure takes place when the invitation is issued or when someone tries to accept it; hopefully someone has logs). An odd bug from AK (which I wouldn't advise replicating, given a choice; I'm just mentioning it in case the client was somehow responsible and causes problems): when the raidleader invites someone in a group, not only did all groupmates have to be present in the same zone, but the group had to have formed in the current zone. That is to say, if two or more people group up and then zone someplace else, their group is permanently "group-bugged"; if they want to join a raid, they'll have to disband and reform.
Some of those sound like bugs though. The way the logic works in the client, if they get moved down to the bottom of the window, they should no longer be flagged as a "group leader". So they should be able to be invited to groups. I will try to make it work best I can, and it may not work "exactly" like AK did when I am done. It will be close. But I want it to work good too. I have it working to invite players and groups pretty well. I am working on the disbanding logic now, including camping/LD, etc.
I know it didnt work on AK, and not sure at what point on live, but cant the raid leader move people from group to group as they saw fit?
That was a later addition, probably not even possible with our client. The raid window went live with PoP's launch, so Al'Kabor (essentially a snapshot of the game on PoP's launch day) had the most barebones version of the system ever to exist; the increase to a maximum of 72 players, for example, was patched in literally a week or two after the system was first introduced.
I'll post some logs on this when I get home. Whoever you sent /raid invite to first is who gets leader if you leave the raid without swapping leader. Yes the Al'Kabor client only allowed for 10 group leaders meaning you could only have 60 players in the raid. Ungrouped players default as group leaders if raid invited. I actually don't remember RW's comment about the bug where the group needed to be formed in zone, and couldn't zone out. But it's been awhile!
I remember that annoying out of range bug. Groups would have to completely disband and reform in zone. Pain in the butt, but we got used to it quickly. All the the raid window commands (make looter, make group/raid leader) required the players in question to be in the same zone. You could target them using the raid window provided they were nearby and "visible". Default was just the raid leader as looter. You (raid leader) would have to select the "raid leader selects looters from list" (or some similar title) option to pick your own looters. Everything RW stated is accurate by my memory. Also: you (as raid leader) could not make a person a group leader while they were in the raid. Maybe a bug? The group leader of the group they were in had this ability with the /makeleader command, but if for example a player was at the bottom of the list, Ungrouped without leader status, he would have to drop raid to be invited as a group leader. This was difficult when a group leader became unresponsive for whatever reason since the raid leader didn't have the power to give group leadership to another.
[Sat Feb 25 23:25:25 2012] To invite someone to your raid, you must first target them. [Sat Feb 25 23:25:28 2012] You invite Performer to join your raid. [Sat Feb 25 23:25:37 2012] Performer is considering joining another raid. [Sat Feb 25 23:25:42 2012] You formed a raid. [Sat Feb 25 23:25:42 2012] Darchon joined the raid. [Sat Feb 25 23:25:42 2012] Performer joined the raid. [Sat Feb 25 23:25:45 2012] Your raid was disbanded. [Sun Feb 24 21:41:50 2013] You gained raid experience! [Fri Nov 09 23:45:56 2012] Illicit has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:45:56 2012] Bragon is now the leader of your raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:46:01 2012] Karili has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:46:08 2012] Hateme has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:46:10 2012] Gugok has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:46:16 2012] Marcia has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:47:22 2012] Seizure has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:47:44 2012] Bragon has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:47:44 2012] Rysia is now the leader of your raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:48:32 2012] Nirron has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:52:23 2012] Andaris has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:52:39 2012] Vulgaris has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:52:47 2012] Avocado has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:52:51 2012] Rysia has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:52:51 2012] Huffwins is now the leader of your raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:55:38 2012] Huffwins has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:55:38 2012] You are now the leader of the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:56:18 2012] Archonn has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:56:25 2012] Landan has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:56:26 2012] Uhaen has left the raid. [Fri Nov 09 23:56:42 2012] You were removed from the raid. [Sun Jan 06 20:30:11 2013] Illicit invites you to join a raid. [Sun Jan 06 20:30:11 2013] To join the raid click the accept button in the raid window or type /raidaccept. [Sun Jan 06 20:30:14 2013] You notify Illicit that you agree to join the raid. [Sun Jan 06 20:30:15 2013] You have joined the raid.
Yeah, going out of the way to replicate bugs isn't going to add incentives for new players to join our old/current players to continue.
If there are any more sorts of messages I may not have thought of let me know and I can look. I spent a fair amount of time as a raid leader and a fair amount as just a regular joe member. So I should have every message imaginable in my logs.
