Slow stacking rules

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pane, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. Pane

    Pane Member

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    I didn't play a shaman as a main on AK so rather then submit a bug report I figure I'll ask some questions about how slow stacks. I suspect there might be something weird going on but I could be wrong.

    I've noticed on raids with multiple shamans that we are able to land slows on the same mob. We are all casting http://lucy.alkabor.com/spell_1588.html

    But our shaman levels differ. According to the spell data. The slow % and the duration increase up until lvl 60. I was under the impression that the highest level shamans slow should overwrite a lower level shamans slow. And that it would block a lower level shaman from landing slow?

    None of us ever get a message that our slow wore off after someone else lands a slow.

    I'm fairly certain that if I land malosini at level 57 and a level 60 magician lands Malosini. I get a message that my spell wore off (I'm not 100% sure if I actually get that message) And if I try to recast I'll get a message that my spell would not take hold (I'm fairly certain of this message). I just recently got malosini so my memory could be from casting malosi. But I just recently got to questioning debuff stacking so I'll be paying more attention to this in the future.

    I plan on trying to get together with another shaman and figure out how this mechanic works. But I'm not sure how it's "supposed" to work. I somewhat remember how it worked on p99 (yes I know that's not necessarily accurate) and I'm pretty sure it's different here.

    Are slows stacking?
    Are they overwriting / blocking and not sending the right message to the client?
    Are slow% and duration not scaling? (This should be easy to test the duration anyway)

    Anyway. Thank you for any input / knowledge you can share with me.
     
  2. Dane

    Dane People Like Me

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    To piggyback on this, it's not just slows. This is a stacking issue with the same spell cast from different level characters.

    I am currently a level 56 Enchanter, and tonight I was grouping with a 57 Enchanter. The 57 Enchanter did the first round of C2s. When I noticed C2 fading, I instinctively went to refresh C2 on myself. Even though the spell should not have taken hold, I still got the "A soft breeze slips through your mind" message. HOWEVER, the buff icon continued to blink and eventually faded out after the original C2 expired.
     
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  3. Pane

    Pane Member

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    Very interesting. When I get a chance I'm gonna do some testing on this.
     
  4. Kedrin

    Kedrin Member

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    Buff stacking in general seems odd. I cannot land call of earth of myself when my dagger has proced greater wolf form, however if I already have call of earth on me greater wolf form will land.
     
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  5. Pane

    Pane Member

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    88
    Do you know if they were the same exact spell? Group vs. Single cast?
    I just used a lvl 1 shaman.

    As level 1 shaman, cast inner fire on self
    As level 57 shaman, cast inner fire on the level 1 shaman
    57 shaman's inner fire overwrites the level 1's inner fire (expected)
    level 1 shaman did not get any message about their spell wearing off (bug? I sure think so but dont have a log to prove it)
    level 1 shaman tried to recast inner fire, got message, "Your spell did not take hold" (expected, but counters the enchanter C2 behavior?)
    Clicked off the buff, no message received that the spell wore off (bug? again i believe so but no logs to prove it)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  6. Lenas

    Lenas I Feel Loved

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    Does the level 57 shm have a focus that changes spell duration? That may block overwrites from unfocused casts.
     
  7. Pane

    Pane Member

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    88
    Nope. But it increases in the amount of HP it gives as you level up and I believe duration.
     
  8. cavedude

    cavedude Administrator Staff Member

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    Regarding slow, on AK same detrimental spells actually stacked on NPCs assuming they were cast by different players. That's also how it works on TAKP. Slow is sort of an odd situation though, because I don't believe the effect should stack, so we're likely just using the spell bonus from the last cast. If that isn't correct, a bug report should be opened further down and it can be discussed. Or even if it doesn't feel right here, please open a bug report so it can be discussed. (And, there is a good chance I am not remembering the rule right, and that's not what is happening at all - either way, it will give me a chance to look at it in depth.)

    The rest of the issues here aren't related, because they are all beneficial and do not use the same stacking rules. I can take a look at them now, no need to open a bug report for them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  9. Pane

    Pane Member

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    88
    Since you are looking at beneficial spell stacking. What's the "factor" that dictates if one persons spell will block the same spell as someone else's?

    Is it duration or scaling of the spell (and therefore the casters level). And do clicky beneficial spells take the base values for modifier and duration?
     
  10. cavedude

    cavedude Administrator Staff Member

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    1,893
    There are many, many rules. But in the end, it's spell effect value that we are looking at. Normally, level changes that value so that's why in most cases a lower level attempting to overwrite a higher level player's spell will be blocked.

    However, in the case of C2 above the problem isn't with spell stacking. It looks like C2 is always using the max effect value (11) regardless of the player level. I tried other spells, and their formulas worked fine. So, there is either something wrong with Clarity's effect formula, or the spell line itself. I'm looking into it now.
     
  11. cavedude

    cavedude Administrator Staff Member

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    1,893
    Hm, so C2 is doing exactly what it should be. Its effect formula is base_value + (caster_level / 5). So even at the lowest level it can be cast, it'll hit the max effect value. 1 + (54/5) = 11.8. It is then capped at the max value, which in this case is 11. I couldn't find any data to refute that, so I am just going to leave it. Lucy has a range specified, but they are using the same formula we are. So either they failed math or we're missing something.

    So, that brings up the question if C2 should always stack (since the value will always be the same.) The client says yes. I cast the spell without any server side stacking checks, and the client allowed it to be overwritten. So, unless we can get a log or something to refute that I am also going to leave that alone.

    I looked at the other examples mentioned in this thread as well. Call of Earth and Greater Wolf Form I couldn't replicate. It worked for me fine both ways. So, I'll need more info on how to replicate that one.

    I took a look at Inner Flame (among other spells) and I agree it's working correctly. As far as the yellow worn off messages... On AK I know for certain you did not get a message when a beneficial spell is refreshed. Because technically, it never wore off. AK didn't send the buff fade packet in that case. Clicking off a buff is a different story. I thought it should be sent then, so it may be a bug that it isn't. I'll dig through the forums and see if we found a log back when those messages were fixed up.
     
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  12. Dane

    Dane People Like Me

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    Hm, okay, good to know C2 should always stack. I'm not sure why it didn't overwrite the fading buff that one night. I tried to dig up my logs, but apparently when I turned logs on a couple of weeks ago, it didn't save the setting when I logged out, and only logged that night.

    Thanks for looking into this. I'll be keeping an eye out to see if I can replicate the weird issue I had with the fading C2.
     
  13. cavedude

    cavedude Administrator Staff Member

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    1,893
    Well, I am not 100% certain it should overwrite. But, the client allows it so I won't change it until somebody can prove it wrong.